A Serious Evasive Problem

[B Trevathan]

Maybe I wasn't clear, I said I WOULDN'T go that high

Maybe I wasn't clear, I said I WOULDN'T go that high

Raising any voltage may fry your computer, Do this at your own risk

I did NOT say to set your memory voltage to 2.6V from the product information and the links that you provided I read that the Ram you bought uses 2.0V and then I read the spec on your motherboard from the manufacturers website and it says it default is 1.8V and then I downloaded your motherboard manual from that site and READ it and found where to change the voltage

Ram: (x4) Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148215&cm_re=Crucial_Ba llistix-_-20-148-215-_-Product

Motherboard: MSI P6N sli (not v2)

From what I read of other people having similar problems they raised the voltage and it solved the problem, I would NOT raise the voltage no higher than what the RAM states it uses.

Try doing this read what I am reading. Read the RAM spec, Read the motherboard manual, Read about similar problems and solutions

Raising any voltage may fry your computer, Do this at your own risk

 

[Tweak]

I'm a bit anxious to hear the solution, I stand by my suggestions to address the memory and its voltages and timings as well as the other areas mentioned...I really need some hobby to fill my time!

 

[matthttam]

Memtest 86 results

I ran memtest 86 v4 today while I had places to go and work to do.
After 4 passes over 10 hours of whatever it does I had 0 errors.

 

[matthttam]

Correction!

OK! I figured out how to change voltage. I initially said I can't change voltage because I thought that the row that said "RAM voltage: Auto" was a display only thing. It was grayed out and hitting enter on it did nothing... Then I hit page up and... DUH!

I set my voltage for RAM to 2.0 as instructed. It seemed to boot a little faster actually so I think that was a positive change.

This could possibly be the issue because a lower amount of voltage than required could cause an inability for my motherboard to retrieve information fast enough and therefore cause a BSOD.

However, the memtest 86 came up 100% 4 times in a row over 10 hours of scanning.

Also, my initial timings were set to Manual.
However, all the actual settings were set to auto except for the Command Per Clock which was set to 2T (which may be the default)

I do not understand what each of these mean and I am curious if I should leave it on Auto (which I changed it to) or change them...

tCL Cas Latency 1-6
tRCD 1-7
tRP 1-7
tRAS 1-15
tRRD 1-15
tRC 1-15
tWR 2-6
tWTR 1-15
tREF 7.8uS or 3.9uS
Command Per Clock 1T or 2T

Currently all of these (excluding Command per clock which is set to 2T) are set to Auto IF I CHANGE the "Memory timings" setting to Manual... This Memory timings is currently set to Auto.

 

[matthttam]

Going to give it a bit to see if anything improves.

This could take a week for it to BSOD or it may do it right now *cringes*... nope ... still typing.

I'll still be checking this forum post daily. I tried running the Benchmark tests in order to throw my comp into a BSOD fit but it doesn't seem to help... I also cleared the log so that any new problems will be small enough to post.

You guys have been awesome so far, thank you so much for the help.

 

[B Trevathan]

Hope this helps

I would NOT go any high than 2.0V on the voltage, I would stay within the RAM specifications

I would not change too many settings at one time, that way if something goes wrong it is easier to backtrack.

If I didn't understand what something is then I wouldn't change it.

Hope this helps

This is your RAM specifications and I copied the other information from the manual I am reading:

Memory Specifications:

Model
Brand Crucial
Series Ballistix Tracer
Model BL25664AR80A
Type 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM
Tech Spec
Capacity 2GB
Speed DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Cas Latency 4
Timing 4-4-4-12
Voltage 2.0V
Heat Spreader Yes


Manual Information:

tCL (CAS Latency)
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. This controls the CAS latency, which determines the timing delay (in clock cycles) before SDRAM starts a read command after receiving it.

tRP
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. This item controls the number of cycles for Row Address Strobe (RAS) to be allowed to precharge. If insufficient time is allowed for the RAS to accumulate its charge before DRAM refresh, refreshing may be incomplete and DRAM may fail to retain data. This item applies only when synchronous DRAM is installed in the system.

tRAS
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. This setting determines the time RAS takes to read from and write to a memory cell.

tRRD
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. Specifies the active-to-active delay of different banks.

tRC
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. The row cycle time determines the minimum number of clock cycles a memory row takes to complete a full cycle, from row activation up to the precharging of the active row.

tWR
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. Minimum time interval between end of write data burst and the start of a precharge command. Allows sense amplifiers to restore data to cells

tWTR
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. Minimum time interval between the end of write data burst and the start of a column-read command. It allows I/O gating to overdrive sense amplifiers before read command starts.

tREF
When the Memory Timings sets to [Manual], the field is adjustable. Specifies the refresh rate of the DIMM requiring the most frequent refresh.

Command Per Clock (CMD)
This field controls the SDRAM command rate. Selecting [1T] makes SDRAM signal controller to run at 1T (T=clock cycles) rate. Selecting [2T] makes SDRAM signal controller run at 2T rate.

 

[pc-wiz]

Have you tested the cmos battery? Shouldn't be the problem but you can check it anyway.

 

[PcTek9]

Hey can I tell you something sir, I had a very similiar problem. I ran memory diagnostics. I replaced ram, video cards, hard drives, and it did turn out to be the motherboard. The disk i/o controller chip on the m/b was bad and generating intermittent databus errors.

I fixed it with a cheap pci raid card, and swapped the drives and the problem went away. You can waste weeks on this type of problem.

Here I tested the psu with an oscilloscope and even watched the power good line on the scope for spikes. I also recorded my power spikes but there were no signficant spikes in the digital multimeters log on the computer (usb). Good luck sir.

* you did test the ram one chip at a time right? if you did that, then it may be the above issue that i had.

 

[matthttam]

Thanks

Thanks for the information on the RAM timings. I will try changing those most likely if I have another BSOD.

As far as the CMOS battery, wouldn't my preboot say something about the system timer being off if my CMOS battery were dead? I'm pretty sure it works fine and I am not sure how if it didn't it would cause errors like that I have described.

And yes, I suspect my motherboard may be going bad if the 2.0V ram settings doesn't cause an improvement.

I am going to give it a few weeks... If it doesn't BSOD within 2 weeks then it is most likely fixed. If it is clear for a month then I would bet money it is fixed. No worries though... If it still has a problem it will Blue screen soon enough.

Didn't BS over night last night which is good. I also ran some benchmarks wish Sandra Lite and it passed (with good ratings too on each one ).

You all have been very helpful btw and I thank each of you for your time and research. Keep tabs on this because as soon as I see a BS I am posting that it is not fixed.

 

[PcTek9]

O please do inform us, I am particularly interested in your final analysis. This particular issue can be one of the hardest ones to troubleshoot and fix.

 

[B Trevathan]

Crucial

In the meantime you can call Curcial at their tech support line 800-336-8916 an ask about what would happen if you ran your memory at too low of a voltage and find out what they recommend on the settings.

Like most people here they are nice and very helpful and they also know a lot about memory, much more than me.

I don't know why they seem to hide this tech number, on their site all I could find was the customer support number.

Tech Support: 800-336-8916

Customer Service: 800-336-8915

Brand Crucial
Series Ballistix Tracer
Model BL25664AR80A

 

[Tweak]

Well SPD or Auto settings don't always work and it seems so far you are on the right track now, happy to hear it, I'll follow this to see how things go long term.

 

[matthttam]

Oh Nos

well... Here is what has happened today:
*Insert picture of computer with explosion graphic overlay*

NOTE: I do not know if this is caused by my current problems or by another happenstance that may have set this off...
At 9am this morning my computer was adjusted from | this way to _ this way. This exposed the wires in the back. When I got home from work (4:10) the computer was in the *Loading Windows* phase and probably had been for several hours (playing graphics and doing nothing else). I immediately shut down by holding power and checked the power chord (because I thought that a cat may have just unplugged it and maybe a family member had plugged it back in and turned it on and left... /shrug). The power chord was loose... which may have caused all of this. If this was due to a power fluctuation problem from bad contacts with the power chord then this could verify the NTFS errors I have been getting could be from power fluctuations at my dorm. The other errors may have been from the voltage issue. None the less (if you are still reading this and not bored and clicking off by now...) here is the explosion of errors.
also, I was not home to see any BSOD's that may have occured.

First this happened which usually isn't a big deal and it did this 5 times in a row. No crucial errors really occurred from this however I figured I would mention it. (note it was yesterday)
Error 12/18/2009 1:57:38 PM cdrom 11 None

Then this happened
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:23 PM Ntfs 55 (2) (First)
15 to 20 times a second from 12:58:23 until 12:58:41
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:41 PM Ntfs 55 (2) (Last)
These errors either consisted of:
The file system structure on the disk is corrupt and unusable. Please run the chkdsk utility on the volume \Device\HarddiskVolume2.
or
The file system structure on the disk is corrupt and unusable. Please run the chkdsk utility on the volume C:.

then an svchost error:
Information 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Application Popup 26 None
Application popup: svchost.exe - Application Error : The instruction at 0xf4e08293 referenced memory at 0xffffffff. The memory could not be read.
Click on OK to terminate the program

Then several applications failed as follows:
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7034 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7031 None
I can give more information on any of these as needed.
Then good news!:
Information 12/19/2009 12:58:43 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7036 None
The Network Connections service entered the running state.

Then back to the NTFS problems (15 to 20 per second) ranging from:
Error 12/19/2009 12:58:41 PM Ntfs 55 (2)
to
Error 12/19/2009 1:31:52 PM Ntfs 55 (2)

In the midst of this as expected the 10 or so application services crashed again and were going to reboot...

I had this:
Error 12/19/2009 1:37:00 PM Kernel-General 5 None
{Registry Hive Recovered} Registry hive (file): '\SystemRoot\System32\Config\RegBack\SOFTWARE' was corrupted and it has been recovered. Some data might have been lost. For Software Components and System one after another (not the first time I have seen this particular error either.

Error 12/19/2009 1:57:07 PM EventLog 6008 None
The previous system shutdown at 1:44:33 PM on 12/19/2009 was unexpected.
then another
Error 12/19/2009 2:10:40 PM EventLog 6008 None
The previous system shutdown at 1:57:08 PM on 12/19/2009 was unexpected.

Then,

Error 12/19/2009 2:08:39 PM Application Popup 1801 None
The hardware has reported an uncorrectable memory error.
7 times in a row over the same second

Error 12/19/2009 2:10:29 PM volmgr 45 None
The system could not sucessfully load the crash dump driver.

Error 12/19/2009 2:12:18 PM DistributedCOM 10005 None
DCOM got error "1053" attempting to start the service WSearch with arguments "" in order to run the server:
{7D096C5F-AC08-4F1F-BEB7-5C22C517CE39}

Error 12/19/2009 2:12:18 PM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7009 None
A timeout was reached (30000 milliseconds) while waiting for the Windows Search service to connect.
The Windows Search service failed to start due to the following error:
The service did not respond to the start or control request in a timely fashion. (same error same time Event ID 7000 different info)
(skip over 2 or 3 that I recognize and are usual errors to have)
The previous system shutdown at 2:24:28 PM on 12/19/2009 was unexpected.
and...
The previous system shutdown at 2:48:02 PM on 12/19/2009 was unexpected.

 

[matthttam]

*

Thank you for the information. If I can get off work sooner next time I will try to call and ask some questions.

 

[matthttam]

Continuation of last night or new problem?

I must be brief as I have work in 20 minutes.
I pressed the space bar on my keyboard to wake the computer this morning.
The Acer monitor button turned green and stayed black. I pressed the Logitech G15 button that cycles through applications etc and it would cycle but the icons that are supposed to be displayed displayed more like artifacts. Sqaures with some rows full and others empty (consistent symbols for each symbol however)

So, after 3 minutes of trying to get the computer to wake I powered it down with the power button being held as it was not responding.

Error 12/20/2009 5:38:57 AM Kernel-General 6 None
An I/O operation initiated by the Registry failed unrecoverably.The Registry could not flush hive (file): '\SystemRoot\System32\Config\SOFTWARE'.
Error 12/20/2009 5:41:10 AM Kernel-General 6 None times 5
An I/O operation initiated by the Registry failed unrecoverably.The Registry could not flush hive (file): '\??\C:\Users\Matt\ntuser.dat'.
Error 12/20/2009 5:39:20 AM Service Control Manager Eventlog Provider 7000 None
The AVG Free WatchDog service failed to start due to the following error:
Not enough storage is available to process this command.

Then The previous system shutdown at 6:03:14 AM on 12/20/2009 was unexpected. as expected (just for time frame clarification

These errors were occurring when I was NOT using the computer. I was most definitely in the shower.

Think this is a result of last night? or a new problem?

 

[B Trevathan]

Are you saying that your computer fell over?

Are you saying that your computer fell over on its side and may have come almost unplugged? A hard hit can damage your hard drive or file system.

You said in post #33 that you have been getting power fluctuations at your dorm but in post #14 you seem to say that your power to the PC has always been good. Having bad power even for a moment is bad, a long time ago I was defraging and my power went out for just a moment, can you guess what happened. So I bought a UPS with power line filtering, now I don't worry and I don't get as much of the little hiccups now as I got before the UPS. Having a TV or another PC on the same circuit as your PC can affect your PC also. Also powerstrips are not always surge protectors, at the very least have a good surge protector.

I would take ell's advice in post #15 and take out your CD drive, you know its broke, you are getting errors from it and a new DVD burner does not cost that much, around $30 I have found that small errors if they are not fixed lead to big errors.

Pressing the power button to reset the computer can cause the file system to have problems, have you tried pressing ctrl-alt-del and stopping applications or processes with the task manager before resetting the PC with the power switch?

 

[IJAC]

I thought this forum was for people with a business or just starting a business
and not for end users.Major Geeks is a good help forum for end users.I may
be wrong on this I have been wrong before.
Hoganberger

 

[matthttam]

I thought this forum was for people with a business or just starting a business
and not for end users.Major Geeks is a good help forum for end users.I may
be wrong on this I have been wrong before.
Hoganberger

This forum is not for the end user. It is for IT technicians or future IT technicians. Personally I am a Junior in the study of networking.

This forum is for either want to be, soon to be or full blown Computer Technicians.

We do support fellow computer technicians looking for technical help if they are having trouble with their own or one of their clients computers.

 

[matthttam]

Are you saying that your computer fell over on its side and may have come almost unplugged? A hard hit can damage your hard drive or file system.

No, it did not fall over on its side. It was simply rotated 45 degrees so that the front was facing a different direction.

You said in post #33 that you have been getting power fluctuations at your dorm but in post #14 you seem to say that your power to the PC has always been good. Having bad power even for a moment is bad...

I was just noting that I may have been experiencing a different error at different places. If I experience the NTFS error at college and at home I experience a different one then maybe there are more than one problems at work here. Given that the power cord being loose in the back seemed to cause the NTFS errors and that I usually ONLY have that error at college, this seemed to suggest to me that the power at college may not be up to par.

Pressing the power button to reset the computer can cause the file system to have problems, have you tried pressing ctrl-alt-del and stopping applications or processes with the task manager before resetting the PC with the power switch?

I know this. Unfortunately when the computer's monitor will not display anything I am forced to shut down improperly. I did a system restore afterwords in case any windows settings may have been corrupted.

I will also take out the dvd drive. I suppose this could be causing a problem.
I will look in to buying a UPS

Thanks

 

[B Trevathan]

Old Timers Tip

Here is an old timers tip for you, when your flying blind without video press Alt+F4 then hit enter and wait a minute or two, if your computer still hasn't shutdown then try it again, try that before resetting with the power switch.

Back in the day with FAT16 turning the power off without shutting down windows first was really bad, NTFS is better but you can still have problems. Make sure you always use NTFS and not FAT32