Windows 11 roll out

[BO Terry]

I have seen a number of forums about changes in Windows 11 etc but have not located any regarding how it will roll out. I support businesses (and home users) that have no server leaving each computer to check for updates independently. Has anyone seen information on how Windows 11 will roll out? Will it be an update/upgrade that must be manually executed like the feature updates? I remember some machines running Windows 7 during the free upgrade to Windows 10 period that ended up having W10 installed without the user knowingly selecting/requesting the upgrade.

 

[HCHTech]

I don't know, but I suspect because of the hardware requirements, at the very least, it won't be offered unless the machine is capable.

I'm testing a script now in my RMM to report whether a machine is "Windows 11 ready" (Has TPM, Has compatible processor, has 64-bit OS).

 

[britechguy]

It is to be rolled out as what amounts to a Feature Update to Windows 10, and like all Feature Updates these days it will be offered, but the end user must accept (we're talking on your typical machine, not a centrally managed system).

I imagine there could come a time, and that would probably be at EOL for Windows 10, where Windows Update on compatible hardware will get far more insistent about upgrading to Windows 11. But I sincerely doubt that there will be any "forced updates" from Windows 10 to Windows 11 while Windows 10 is still in support. Microsoft didn't do this for Windows 7 or 8/8.1 as far as Windows 10 was concerned, and I see no reason to believe it will be any different this time.

When it comes to timing on things like this, I absolutely refuse to speculate, as Microsoft can change its mind about release dates as it sees fit, and it has. The last thing I read, though, from someone I know to be pretty reliable suggested that the end of October is when the rollout will commence. I'm quite sure it will have (relatively speaking) very small update cohort sizes at first, and move very slowly. Microsoft will be monitoring telemetry like hawks as this rollout starts.

 

[thatdude]

@britechguy. You stated, "I sincerely doubt that there will be any "forced updates"." Do you know how many people upgrading to Windows 10 due to Microsoft's little Windows 7 to 10 notification? They upgrade and then you get the call that their Printer doesn't work anymore. First thought, "Man I hope this rollback to 7 works".

If you guys are anything like me you're going to find a way so end users don't even see that option to upgrade to Windows 11 for at least a year. Let other end users report all the issues to Microsoft. Every thing tells me Microsoft does no beta testing anymore. The end users are the beta testers.

So who else's Server 2012 clients got that upgrade for the Print Spooler a couple of weeks ago? Sorry Win 10 users connected to that Print Server, you can't print anymore.

 

[britechguy]

Every thing tells me Microsoft does no beta testing anymore. The end users are the beta testers.

We'll have to agree to disagree. While I definitely think that in-house testing teams are smaller than they once were, the Windows Insiders Program was a stroke of pure genius and got Microsoft a raft of willing testers far larger than they could ever have assembled otherwise.

And based on what I see in "the accessibility world" with regard to the Windows development cycle Microsoft is paying very close attention, constantly, to the telemetry and feedback from all Windows sources.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@thatdude I got that 2012 R2 "upgrade" and every machine is windows 10 and guess what?

Printers all work.... every... single.... one...

So I have no idea WTF people are on about. I'm not exactly special.

 

[britechguy]

I'm not exactly special.

Well, I'm not disagreeing with you, at least not precisely, but you very well may be in a way.

You, based on all appearances, are very consistent in how you configure a multitude of things across all your MSP clients. I would imagine that other MSPs are, too. But, and here's the big but, you may be doing "everything right" and they are doing "one small thing wrong," where that one small thing is at the root of all the issues.

I have said, repeatedly, that very few problems/bugs are truly global. The rare ones that are affect each and every user who has occasion to have Windows follow a given code path (and, even then, you could argue that not everyone will ever follow a given code path). But most problems are idiosyncratic to something directly related to the Windows installation on a given machine.

So, if you take that "on a single machine" idea, and recognize that it can be widely propagated via MSP standardization, it's entirely possible for a very great many people to be hit by something and others not.

But, after all the above, I'm with you. The amount of electrons that have been spilled about this seems grossly out of proportion to the number of users actually affected, and it's nowhere near to all users who applied the so-called demon update. There absolutely has to be "a certain something" present on those machines that cause the system, after the update, to "trip up" that is absent on many others.

 

[frase]

I think users will just keep their "old" Windows 10 and try to avoid upgrading as to berking up their systems...sigh now we have to call the I.T guy.

 

[britechguy]

I think users will just keep their "old" Windows 10 and try to avoid upgrading as to berking up their systems...

I think there will be that camp, and the "I want Windows 11 as soon as I can get it, Yesterday would have been preferable!" camp.

That's been my experience with every major Windows version debut. And those who jumped at the chance for Vista and 8, in particular, regretted the rush and many wanted to go back. The IT guy got called multiple times.

 

[GTP]

"I want Windows 11 as soon as I can get it, Yesterday would have been preferable!"

Already started here. Many clients asking "when can I get it."
I tell them to just wait till it's offered but of course they want it now...

 

[britechguy]

I tell them to just wait till it's offered but of course they want it now...

Join the club. And I only say this, once.

You will get it when it's offered to you by Windows Update. Period. End of Sentence. Don't ask me again.

 

[sapphirescales]

For some reason a lot of my clients are freaking out thinking that as soon as Windows 11 is out their Windows 10 will suddenly stop working and/or become completely obsolete. I'm having to have a discussion with almost every nuke n' pave I do that no, I can't install Windows 11 yet and they don't have to (and probably shouldn't) upgrade to Windows 11 as soon as it comes out. The sigh of relief I hear from the other end of the line when I tell them that Windows 10 will still be fully supported until 2025 is very obvious. Nobody wants to have to relearn another version of Windows and I don't blame them. Nobody asks for or wants this BS.

 

[River Valley Computer]

I am not sure of the reason MS chose now to release a major release of Windows that could require many end users to have to update their 'obsolete' systems. With all the chip shortages and the ridiculously high costs of computers and components now it is just bad timing on their part.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I am not sure of the reason MS chose now to release a major release of Windows that could require many end users to have to update their 'obsolete' systems. With all the chip shortages and the ridiculously high costs of computers and components now it is just bad timing on their part.

Because the OEM Partners are looking at dramatically declining sales. They are hoping for additional sales but honestly most people do not care and if Windows 10 will still work they will happily stay put.

Also I’ll bet good money that we techs will be able to upgrade ANY PC* to Windows 11 and it will both properly install and get full support and upgrades, even while Microsoft will claim that they will not support it. Just like they tell you that the Windows 10 free upgrade is no longer offered yet anyone can still perform one today and it just works and is perfectly legal.

* - I mean ANY! TPM will not matter, older CPUs will not matter. If it can run Windows 10 you will be able to install Windows 11 via the media creation tool as an in place upgrade or a nuke and pave upgrade.

 

[River Valley Computer]

Because the OEM Partners are looking at dramatically declining sales. They are hoping for additional sales but honestly most people do not care and if Windows 10 will still work they will happily stay put.

Also I’ll bet good money that we techs will be able to upgrade ANY PC* to Windows 11 and it will both properly install and get full support and upgrades, even while Microsoft will claim that they will not support it. Just like they tell you that the Windows 10 free upgrade is no longer offered yet anyone can still perform one today and it just works and is perfectly legal.

* - I mean ANY! TPM will not matter, older CPUs will not matter. If it can run Windows 10 you will be able to install Windows 11 via the media creation tool as an in place upgrade or a nuke and pave upgrade.

I want to believe you and I sincerely hope you are right. But being 76 years old I have become somewhat of a skeptic. Kind of like 'the checks in the mail'. I, like you have lived through so many Microsoft debacles such as Vista, Windows 8, etc . it makes it hard to put a lot of faith in their decisions. With that being said others such as Apple are no better. Look how the Macs become obsolete with new versions of IOS.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I want to believe you and I sincerely hope you are right. But being 76 years old I have become somewhat of a skeptic. Kind of like 'the checks in the mail'. I, like you have lived through so many Microsoft debacles such as Vista, Windows 8, etc . it makes it hard to put a lot of faith in their decisions. With that being said others such as Apple are no better. Look how the Macs become obsolete with new versions of IOS.

Yes but Apple flat blocks the ability to install outdated versions. If you try to install you get an error. There are work arounds but they are hacking the installer and Apple WILL NOT support it just like they don’t support Hackintosh builds.

Windows could easily have detection routines in the installer to check for outdated hardware. They used such technology to boot unqualified PCs from the insider program. Yet the installer doesn’t do this and its obviously can be installed without hacking it, otherwise they wouldn’t need to claim that unsupported hardware MIGHT not be supported. Note that they say might not and not WILL NOT. Lawyers write this stuff. Exact language is easily stated. They choose to be vague. Why? Because like with Windows 10 they want everyone on the newest OS and are willing to give the product away to the 1% of the installation base that will attempt this. The people reading this post are an elite and rare crowd and a small fraction of the base. Microsoft can afford to let us slide because without this option we would use hacks that defeat Microsoft security and is a bigger risk to the ecosystem than a few lost hardware sales to the OEMs. Seven years of giving the product away is plenty of proof of Microsoft intent. Microsoft goals have not changed. This is 100% a bone thrown to OEMs to boost sagging PC sales after the Covid boom.

Edit. Small edits for clarity.

 

[britechguy]

Also I’ll bet good money that we techs will be able to upgrade ANY PC* to Windows 11

I'm really not so sure about this. From all indications this is a very intentional, "hard" break.

If anything, I expect that Windows 10 EOL will be pushed back, myself. There's just too much "newer hardware" that will still be quite viable in 2025 that is on the shelves and being sold today that will not run Windows 11 if the "hard break" is actually enforced.

Time will tell.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I'm really not so sure about this. From all indications this is a very intentional, "hard" break.

If anything, I expect that Windows 10 EOL will be pushed back, myself. There's just too much "newer hardware" that will still be quite viable in 2025 that is on the shelves and being sold today that will not run Windows 11 if the "hard break" is actually enforced.

Time will tell.

If it was a hard break it would not install. Yet it does. Running the latest build, which looks to be final on a 7th generation i5 Lenovo T460s. It was booted out of the insider program. Yet a download of the media creation tool nuke and pave works.

 

[Sky-Knight]

To me the might vs will is simply a line in the sand. If you're on the wrong side of it, the next feature update might be your last.

Best to simply love those machines on Win10 and replace them before Oct of 2025.

We all know MS isn't the best at hardware testing, and the semi-annual cadence of feature updates has been a huge issue in the past. I'm looking forward to an annual cadence personally.

But since Win11 is just another feature update we don't have to worry about automatic updates to the platform until 2025. Unless a user with admin power pushes the button.

 

[nlinecomputers]

To me the might vs will is simply a line in the sand. If you're on the wrong side of it, the next feature update might be your last.

True. And I could be proven wrong. But they said the same things about Free Windows 10 upgrades and that is STILL going on to this day. Microsoft is very concerned about warez hacked copies of Windows. They have proven in the past to have backdoors that are a serious risk to the security of the internet. This is a revenue source that Microsoft is simply NOT going to ever land. So rather than risk issues with it they simply give the product away. It requires some first-hand knowledge but it is easier and safer to perform than some hack.

Right now the "security issues" are 100% hardware-related. Windows 10 is no more or less secure running on a 7th gen Intel Core CPU than Windows 11 is. SO any argument that Windows 11 is more secure is pure bullsh-t.(for now..this can really change.) If security is a concern you need to move on from anything older than 8th Gen right now. Microsoft can't be that publicly blunt because it would trigger a crippling product recall that would bankrupt Intel and AMD. There are software-level patches that seem to be good enough, so we live with them. Not supporting that hardware puts the internet at risk. So Microsoft will do so anyway. They just won't be very upfront about it. Because they would rather support the viewpoint that you need to be moving to newer hardware but in a way that doesn't cause a panic. In fact I would argue that Microsoft actually thinks that the software patches are very sufficient and the line in the sand is more a marketing ploy to boost sales than any real security risks. Though it is NOT 100%.

Like I said. If they really wanted a hard line in the sand, the damn thing would not install at all. Yet it does. I don't think that is any kind of oversite. This is by design.