[REQUEST] What to do with expired iMac hardware

[urcomputech]

Good morning Mac geeks.
I'm not at all well versed when it comes to macs, but I do tend to find my way around. I have come across a couple of clients with older machines that when you try to update, the hardware is no longer supported by the next iteration of the OS X. For example, it might be an iMac circa 2011 running Yosemite (10.10.5). I would think that the newer OS would at least run on older hardware, albeit a little slower. I can't imagine a hard expiration that forces you to go out and buy a new desktop. So my question is two-fold: Is there an option to manually upgrade the OS, or do you normally tell your clients it is time to purchase new hardware, or am I missing something else entirely?
Thank you all.

 

[sapphirescales]

2011 is 10 fricking years old...it's time to purchase new hardware. That being said, if the hardware is still functional you can load Linux or Windows (depending on the hardware). For example, Windows 10 wouldn't work well on a 2011, but it would work just fine on a 2013+. Linux will run on just about anything. It's not ideal but if you want the computer to be safe to use online, you need an OS that's still getting security updates. I would recommend Linux.

EDIT: There's a Linux distro with a UI that looks very similar to Mac OS. Might be good enough for a very basic user.

The thoughtful, capable, and ethical replacement for Windows and macOS ⋅ elementary OS

The thoughtful, capable, and ethical replacement for Windows and macOS

elementary.io

 

[NviGate Systems]

Well, there used to be an app that would override the requirements, but I think that app died with PowerPC.

I mean, Apple is fairly generous with OS updates when it comes to desktops. They used to charge for them. Ten years is a looooong time. Plus, if memory services, I'd be surprised if the GPU in that thing didn't die soon, so many of them did. (iMac 2011)

I know many Apple users hate to give up old faithful, but many Macs become ticking time bombs after so many years. Burn the wagon if they won't move, sounds harsh but you don't wanna deal with the constant headache that old machine will be.

Edit: Elementary OS is indeed slick but is plagued with bugs that are so basic that I finally had enough and went Pop OS which has a very similar design.

 

[carmen617]

Apple continues to support their OS's with security updates for about 3 years or so - they don't announce it, but my experience is that you continue to get updates for a while, especially when the next generation OS has dropped a lot of older models. The last OS version for a 2011 iMac is 10.13, High Sierra. The current latest OS is 10.17, Monterey, which was released last week. So, you can update that 2011 iMac with High Sierra and get perhaps one more round or so of security updates on it. That would be my inclination - I charge a flat rate for an OS upgrade like that, telling the client it's a last ditch way to keep the system up and running while they budget for, and shop for, a replacement.

If the Mac is too old to run a 3-4 generations back OS, I just tell the client it's time to retire the machine.

 

[johnrobert]

The laptop I use for many hours every day is a 2007 Dell Studio XPS bought it used 12 years ago it needed a wifi card, Vista OS, its never let me down runs great with SSD no plans to retire it. it has the RGB led screen that was a few hundred $ extra it still beats anything I have seen today.
I just ordered a new keyboard, even the battery is original and good.
I strip laptop batteries built a few Ebikes very rarely find a bad battery always the electronic in the battery pack

 

[sapphirescales]

So, you can update that 2011 iMac with High Sierra and get perhaps one more round or so of security updates on it.

The problem is that Apple is always pushing people to upgrade. For example, if you want their Office suite, it won't install on anything older than 10.15. You can maybe find an older version, but they won't let you download it from the app store. Same thing with most of the apps available in the store. You try to install anything and you get a warning that your computer is too old. Not a message a client wants to receive when they've just bought the computer from you. I keep older versions of Apple's Office suite on a flash drive so I can install them on older versions of Mac OS, but the old versions aren't easy to find/download and that's only one obstacle. Adobe CC for example won't install on anything older than 1-2 versions behind the most recent version of Mac OS.

No, once a Mac isn't able to run the most recent version of Mac OS, it's pretty much toast.

 

[carmen617]

The problem is that Apple is always pushing people to upgrade. For example, if you want their Office suite, it won't install on anything older than 10.15. You can maybe find an older version, but they won't let you download it from the app store. Same thing with most of the apps available in the store. You try to install anything and you get a warning that your computer is too old. Not a message a client wants to receive when they've just bought the computer from you. I keep older versions of Apple's Office suite on a flash drive so I can install them on older versions of Mac OS, but the old versions aren't easy to find/download and that's only one obstacle. Adobe CC for example won't install on anything older than 1-2 versions behind the most recent version of Mac OS.

No, once a Mac isn't able to run the most recent version of Mac OS, it's pretty much toast.

I agree, but I also don't sell used Macs to clients, especially Macs that are out of support. My "older Mac" revenue comes from charging them to safely upgrade an older system to the most recent version of the OS it can run, in order to buy the client some time before they MUST replace the system. I explain fully that it's just a stop gap effort, to keep the machine working (websites will stop loading on older OS's) and relatively safe on the internet until they decide they want to drop a ton of money on another overpriced and overhyped Apple product.

Apple has a good racket, where they build expensive and unsustainable, non-upgradable and non-repairable products, with 100% planned obsolescence built in, that somehow appeal to the cool kids. I hear all the time "this lasted me for 8 years, that's why I buy Apple". Fine, but when the 8 years is up, it is UP.

 

[sapphirescales]

I hear all the time "this lasted me for 8 years, that's why I buy Apple".

LOL that might have been true in the past (it was true of PCs too BTW), but not any longer. Most Macs I see are either really old (10+ years) or practically brand new (less than 2 years old). They're made like crap nowadays. Another great one I get is "Macs can't get viruses!" I love to see how mad and confused they get when they get garbage notifications in their Chrome browser. "I thought Macs couldn't get viruses! *Shocked Pikachu Face* " No, you just overpaid for a disposable piece of garbage that's a vain status symbol that does nothing but show how stupid you are to anyone with a brain.

 

[lan101]

I had a client earlier this year that had a perfectly working 10 year old mac but he couldn't get on certain web sites anymore or it was a major pain in the butt workaround that he wouldn't understand the minute I wasn't there to guide him through it...so basically I had him buy a pc rather than an overpriced mac for 2 grand that will need to be replaced in probably 5 years or so.

Older macs with the G4 I still like those lol. Not much modern day usefulness now but I still got 1 I toy around with once in a while. About once a year I hook it up and dabble around with it.

 

[timeshifter]

perfectly working 10 year old mac but he couldn't get on certain web sites anymore or it was a major pain in the butt workaround that he wouldn't understand the minute I wasn't there to guide him through it...so basically I had him buy a pc rather than an overpriced mac for 2 grand that will need to be replaced in probably 5 years or so.

A 10 year old Mac can run 10.13 and Chrome (works on 10.11 and higher). What problem / work-around were you dealing with?

 

[lan101]

A 10 year old Mac can run 10.13 and Chrome (works on 10.11 and higher). What problem / work-around were you dealing with?

I believe it was banking sites and certain things like that from what I remember.

 

[MisterT]

Apple will eventually brick the device. I once had a Macbook come in that might have been able to update to a functional version 5 years ago. Since then, it had missed a CERTIFICATE update that excluded it from further updates or app installs or anything. The certificate was so expired that it could not be updated.

Bottom line is that old Apple hardware belongs in a bin. Heck, NEW Apple hardware belongs in a bin.

 

[NviGate Systems]

If your client gives it to you to recycle, even an older Mac OS can still be OK for a Bench machine to run basic utils and deal with mac files. That's what we did in the past. Removed the barrier to working with Macs and made some things allot easier.

 

[overburnz]

Apple will eventually brick the device. I once had a Macbook come in that might have been able to update to a functional version 5 years ago. Since then, it had missed a CERTIFICATE update that excluded it from further updates or app installs or anything. The certificate was so expired that it could not be updated.

Bottom line is that old Apple hardware belongs in a bin. Heck, NEW Apple hardware belongs in a bin.

That does not make any sense whatsoever, that’s just nonsense and “apple hating”, I can still show you Mac’s with 20 years working and installing apps (those compatible with the version installed), your experience must have something else entirely different and you probably weren’t able to troubleshoot it correctly

 

[overburnz]

I had a client earlier this year that had a perfectly working 10 year old mac but he couldn't get on certain web sites anymore or it was a major pain in the butt workaround that he wouldn't understand the minute I wasn't there to guide him through it...so basically I had him buy a pc rather than an overpriced mac for 2 grand that will need to be replaced in probably 5 years or so.

Older macs with the G4 I still like those lol. Not much modern day usefulness now but I still got 1 I toy around with once in a while. About once a year I hook it up and dabble around with it.

Probably macOS was not updated you can still use Mac’s with El Capitan and browse the internet with no major issues

 

[NviGate Systems]

Apple has always had that "line in the sand" when it comes to older machines. But don't mistake the gesture of free updates as a charitable offer. Eventually when the barrage of system requirements slows down the Mac, users will eventually give up and replace it. When they use the new Mac, they are amazed at the speed and quickly forget any malice they had because they have a shiny new toy.

Mac OS isn't the only OS that suffers from this. Part of the issue is hardware. Chipmakers have been pouring sweat into "optimizing" the chips, to the point where aside from the "new breeds" most chips in the last few years are dull, nothing like the old power hungry chips that would be like old super Cars, they guzzle gas, can go from ambient to 99 in less than sixty seconds, and were lots of fun.

But we can't have fun all the time can we?

 

[MisterT]

That does not make any sense whatsoever, that’s just nonsense and “apple hating”, I can still show you Mac’s with 20 years working and installing apps (those compatible with the version installed), your experience must have something else entirely different and you probably weren’t able to troubleshoot it correctly

I can admit to a little Mac hate. Apple has been very unfriendly to independent repair shops.

I also know that Mac is fantastic for graphic and audio design. I have also seen ancient macs that still work. However, since the implementation of the app store, any unsupported OS will largely cease to function, forcing the user to buy a new machine. Granted, once an OS is unsupported, it's time to upgrade anyway.

I have had a client throw out his mac because his solitaire scores wouldn't transfer. I have seen many times over where people who would otherwise prefer to buy a PC get a mac because they would lose their music library. (I know it's transferable with some work, it's just an insurmountable barrier to some people.)

I know the certificate example is extreme. It stems from bureaucratic BS involving privacy statements that need to be agreed to as you do an update. Some stages on the OSX update path can't be skipped. For example, High Sierra introduced the Apple File System. So upgrading from El Capitan to Catalina requires a stop there first. Unfortunately, the EULA/privacy agreement certificate for that has expired and can't be agreed to anymore. Thus, the machine is stuck in El Capitan even if the hardware would support Catalina.

 

[overburnz]

I can admit to a little Mac hate. Apple has been very unfriendly to independent repair shops.

I also know that Mac is fantastic for graphic and audio design. I have also seen ancient macs that still work. However, since the implementation of the app store, any unsupported OS will largely cease to function, forcing the user to buy a new machine. Granted, once an OS is unsupported, it's time to upgrade anyway.

I have had a client throw out his mac because his solitaire scores wouldn't transfer. I have seen many times over where people who would otherwise prefer to buy a PC get a mac because they would lose their music library. (I know it's transferable with some work, it's just an insurmountable barrier to some people.)

I know the certificate example is extreme. It stems from bureaucratic BS involving privacy statements that need to be agreed to as you do an update. Some stages on the OSX update path can't be skipped. For example, High Sierra introduced the Apple File System. So upgrading from El Capitan to Catalina requires a stop there first. Unfortunately, the EULA/privacy agreement certificate for that has expired and can't be agreed to anymore. Thus, the machine is stuck in El Capitan even if the hardware would support Catalina.

What?! Lol I am sorry but that statement is incorrect, you can update as long as you have the installer, which you can download directly from the App Store no hardware is unusable as long as the OS allows you to use as you need, that is true for any OS (windows, macOS and Linux)

 

[MisterT]

What?! Lol I am sorry but that statement is incorrect, you can update as long as you have the installer, which you can download directly from the App Store no hardware is unusable as long as the OS allows you to use as you need, that is true for any OS (windows, macOS and Linux)

I'd be happy to refer my client to you, but we're out in the middle of Montana. Also, I was using the installer downloaded directly from Apple. Both the upgrade utility and the USB stick produced the same error. "Unable to perform action due to expired certificate, please update your certificate."

You can't tell me the problem does not exist just because you haven't seen it before.

Here are some examples: https://eclecticlight.co/2021/09/21...about-to-have-a-security-certificate-problem/

How to fix the 'untrusted_cert_title' error when reinstalling macOS

This problem appears to be one of the past, but readers keep encountering it.

www.macworld.com

How to update my root certificates on an older version of macOS (e.g. El Capitan)?

I have not been able to get the script from this post to work. How do I update my root certificates on an older version of macOS (e.g. El Capitan)? How do I update my root certificates on an older

apple.stackexchange.com

Now, I can't remember the details or find the ticket for the job I was on, but the certificate I needed as an intermediary wasn't available from Apple anymore. I went up the Apple support chain on the phone and it basically boiled down to "The certificate you have is so old, the one it updates to no longer exists." In order to fix it, I would have had to find a survivor machine with that cert on it.

And before you give me crap about backing up the data and reinstalling the OS fresh, I don't remember why that wasn't an option specifically but the client had data or apps that wouldn't survive it.

 

[overburnz]

I'd be happy to refer my client to you, but we're out in the middle of Montana. Also, I was using the installer downloaded directly from Apple. Both the upgrade utility and the USB stick produced the same error. "Unable to perform action due to expired certificate, please update your certificate."

You can't tell me the problem does not exist just because you haven't seen it before.

Here are some examples: https://eclecticlight.co/2021/09/21...about-to-have-a-security-certificate-problem/

How to fix the 'untrusted_cert_title' error when reinstalling macOS

This problem appears to be one of the past, but readers keep encountering it.

www.macworld.com

How to update my root certificates on an older version of macOS (e.g. El Capitan)?

I have not been able to get the script from this post to work. How do I update my root certificates on an older version of macOS (e.g. El Capitan)? How do I update my root certificates on an older

apple.stackexchange.com

Now, I can't remember the details or find the ticket for the job I was on, but the certificate I needed as an intermediary wasn't available from Apple anymore. I went up the Apple support chain on the phone and it basically boiled down to "The certificate you have is so old, the one it updates to no longer exists." In order to fix it, I would have had to find a survivor machine with that cert on it.

And before you give me crap about backing up the data and reinstalling the OS fresh, I don't remember why that wasn't an option specifically but the client had data or apps that wouldn't survive it.

That issue has a fix, El Capitan does have that issue but if you turn on the mac and press cmd + R you go to the menu in where you can, among other things, open terminal and set the date and time, you can set to jan 1st 2016 (I think that will work) and then it will install, or you can download macOS High Sierra installer and put it on a usb stick boot the mac and press “options” select the install disc and just install high sierra on top of El Capitan, you won’t delete anything and it will install with no issues, do that conected to the internet for firmware update process, after you can update to Catalina (downloading the installer from apple ) the same way you did with high sierra feel free to pm me if you need some more pointers