[BUG] Ubuntu 16.04 & later has changes to networking & it sucks!

tankman1989

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Been runing an Ubuntu variant since 6.04 and every time it has installed like a dream on about 40 different computers, always recognizing the NIC and only stumbling on the wireless card a few times but that is because they were really cheap and kind of rare chipsets in those wireless cards. Every Live CD would allow for internet connection immediately at bootup and I could pull down security updates.

Been running 12.04, 13.10, 14.04 on a few machines and on my 14.04 I decided to upgrade to 16.04, 16.10 and 17.04 and in each case, not one NIC would work out of the 10 on my one machine (2 on board and 2 4 port cards - Intel Pro chipset - very high end when they came out so they should be supported...).

They also did away with /etc/network/interfaces file (at least moved it and even editing it did nothing to get them working). They changed how to restart the network and may other network options and commands. It was a total cluster F for someone who has been used to it since 2004 (and had Debian experience before that...).

There were some other major issues that made the system not work well and I couldn't get it to run correctly where as when I installed 14.04 on my dual graphic card (plus onboard graphics) for 7 monitors, it just worked, but on 16.04, 16.10 and 17.04 I could only get one card to work and it was turned 90 degrees off vertical and the monitors were mis-aligned by 50% vertically and they COULD NOT be changed in the settings - it just wouldn't allow it, like I was locked out or something (I was logged in as root).

There were a number of other hideous issues that made me give up on it and plug my old drive back in (good thing I didn't install over it!!)

One odd thing with 14.04. On first install I had the perfect monitor arrangement - 2 rows of 3 wide screen monitors and a tall ultra wide monitor on the side. The mouse ran fine from one screen to another, I could go from top left to bottom right across about 4 screens. Then for some reason after an nvidia driver update, I lost the bottom left monitor (always black) and now the screens are arraigned in a horizontal line as per the way the computer sees them though they are in 2 rows of 3 and ont vertical on the right. I just had to get used to moving the mouse differently but it actually has some advantages I didn't think would be helpful (bit still want it back). Tried rolling back driver and it was a no-go. Once in a while when I boot, it will come up with the normal 7 screen display but that only lasts till the next reboot and then it is back to the one screen that is blacked out. I got a new video card and the same thing, so it isnt' that. Very odd and there isn't anything on the net that I could find about it.

Has anyone had any problems upgrading to release 16+ of any ubuntu flavor? I think there are many more depricated commands which supposedly ****** a lot of people off.
 
The only thing I can remember with Ubuntu 16.04 is that they went from upstart to systemd. Sometimes there is the whole
/etc/network/interfaces.d/ thing

Netplan did throw me for a loop on Ubuntu 17.10, but I got my bridge working fine. Saltstack's support for Ubuntu's networking has been shaky for a long time, and I haven't yet put my LXD server under full configuration management.

My current plan is to now only have Ubuntu for my LXD server, and all my containers will be straight Fedora.
 
This is one of the MANY reasons why Linux hasn't been successful as a consumer operating system (unless you count Android, which I don't). Despite the less than perfect nature of Windows, at least the internet works out of the box and it's possible to find drivers for anything and everything. And with Windows 10, driver issues are pretty much extinct. As much as I appreciate SDI, I rarely use it anymore unless I run into something obscure.
 
Despite the less than perfect nature of Windows, at least the internet works out of the box ...
There are Intel on-board Ethernet ports that didn't have a driver in Windows 7 and with no fall-back base level operation. Nothing worked until the third-party drivers were installed.

@tankman1989 : yes, with such an ordinary everyday system spec., it should be flawless and Just Work out of the box. /s
 
There are Intel on-board Ethernet ports that didn't have a driver in Windows 7 and with no fall-back base level operation. Nothing worked until the third-party drivers were installed.

@tankman1989 : yes, with such an ordinary everyday system spec., it should be flawless and Just Work out of the box. /s

Uhhh...Windows 7 came out in 2009, almost a decade ago. You might as well talk about Windows XP, which also had bad out of the box driver support. The point is, it's 2018. That's not acceptable anymore and like always, Linux is nearly a decade behind the times when it comes to usability and user friendliness. Maybe in 2028 it will be as good as Windows 10 is today, but by then we'll have Windows 12 or whatever and it will still blow Linux out of the water.

There's no way for Linux to compete with an operating system backed by a company with hundreds of billions of dollars. Especially when no manufacturer actually supports it. Is Windows better than Linux? That's up to the individual user to decide. But when you can't even get internet out of the box and you have to install it yourself, the end user is always going to choose what actually works (in this case, Windows).
 
I used to use Linux (many distros) , at that time i couldn't find any Nvidia-supporting drivers able to properly display my computer on my TV...
Just that took me away from it.
And from what i read lately, drivers issues are still actual...
 
at that time i couldn't find any Nvidia-supporting drivers able to properly display my computer on my TV
Not even the original ones? http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
Especially when no manufacturer actually supports it.
Really? IBM, Intel, Nvidia are only 3 manufacturers I know by personal experience.
@tankman1989 : yes, with such an ordinary everyday system spec., it should be flawless and Just Work out of the box. /s
Love you for that. :)

Folks, it's always the same thing with linux: it is not made for dummies just able to insert a DVD and after install able to remove it. I use Linux since the beginning of 2000. Oh, it was a hard way. The first 8 weeks I did nothing else than trying to compile a kernel which will fit to my Pentium 1 system without much RAM and even without much hdd space. After the first kernel panic I opened a bottle of wine and gave a party. To be able to die it must have been alive. We are now 18 years after my beginnings. Here are working a lot of machines with linux. The newest one is an Intel core i9 on a MSI x299 Game Pro Carbon mainboard.

Yeah, you are right if you say that it not always work out of the box. But with the ability to read and understand there's also the ability to solve things on non-ordinary systems.

In fact I have to take up the cudgels for M$ handling the "user changes the mainboard and don't want to install new" in WIndows 10. The transplantation of the old drive from an i5 2500K to the new Equipment worked out of the box. I just had to install the mainboard drivers. Uh, and I had to buy a new license. But the same thing worked as well with linux. Did that a few weks ago with a pfsense installation after the hardware died. 30 minutes after the firefighters left the same hdd worked in a new hardware equipment. Uh, and don't need any license.

So what we are talking about? About problems installing linux on a real unusual system without looking beyond one's own nose or about bashing an operating system that doesn't try to delude the user that he's an administrator without having to study like M$ does?
 
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(k|x|ed)ubuntu is not linux. This are only distros. And on special cases (like using a TV as a monitor) it might be the better way to leave the highway and change to the country lane. It might be easier to set up a linux from a distro that would not directly install a defined set of software. Give debian a try, install it without choosing a desktop environment and set up a desktop environment by hand afterwards. It is way easier than deinstalling unwanted stuff and switching to better drivers and/or software. One other way is to try a distribution like gentoo. It is always your decision what to install. Ready-made solutions like ubuntu and its derivates may not be helpful on a non-standard equipment.
 
The point is, it's 2018. That's not acceptable anymore and like always, Linux is nearly a decade behind the times when it comes to usability and user friendliness. Maybe in 2028 it will be as good as Windows 10 is today, but by then we'll have Windows 12 or whatever and it will still blow Linux out of the water.

There's no way for Linux to compete with an operating system backed by a company with hundreds of billions of dollars. Especially when no manufacturer actually supports it.

First, I agree with your general assessment: the Linux driver situation is bad, and OEM support isn't common.

Now, I'd like to suggest that the goal of the Linux project wasn't for commercialization, and therefore issues like this are to be expected.

At the heart of the matter, Linux is about open computing -- sharing the source code so others can use it without restriction. A hardware manufacture (although their design may be patented) is not interested in sharing the inner workings of their product in the same fashion. Device drivers reveal all the "trade secrets" of a particular device, and therefore you're not going to find a lot of open source device drivers. This causes a problem for Linux, as they can't bundle closed source drivers that they don't own into their OS install media. The use of 3rd party drivers is configurable after installation, but this breaks the end user experience as you have noted.

As for support and commercial backing, the Linux world is much less clear than the Microsoft world. The major players (Canonical, Red Hat, etc.) do offer support, and they do make products that compete with Microsoft. Granted, the market share is much smaller (as is Apple's in the server and business desktop world), but strong niches do exist, with wealthy vendors to support them.

That being said, I suspect that the open source goals of the Linux project will always put it behind businesses that do not have that limitation holding them back.
 
As for support and commercial backing, the Linux world is much less clear than the Microsoft world. The major players (Canonical, Red Hat, etc.) do offer support, and they do make products that compete with Microsoft. Granted, the market share is much smaller (as is Apple's in the server and business desktop world), but strong niches do exist, with wealthy vendors to support them.

That being said, I suspect that the open source goals of the Linux project will always put it behind businesses that do not have that limitation holding them back.

On the contrary, in the server world, it's Microsoft that is operating in niches. Granted, the SMB market is a large niche. However, the enterprise server market is dominated by open source OSes. Closed source actually creates a risk in the enterprise. It is possible that no amount of money could convince Microsoft to fix a bug in Windows. The pool of expertise a company could call upon and hire to fix a bug in GNU/Linux is much larger.
 
Give debian a try, install it without choosing a desktop environment and set up a desktop environment by hand afterwards. It is way easier than deinstalling ......

Please don't recommend Debian for a novice. Oooof! Ultimately over-whelming.....
 
I used to use Linux (many distros) , at that time i couldn't find any Nvidia-supporting drivers able to properly display my computer on my TV...
Just that took me away from it.
And from what i read lately, drivers issues are still actual...

You know that all of us Linux users (may) have strong opinions on which variant to use. Let me suggest that you take a good look at Linux Mint MATE 18.3 (what I am currently running on this very same computer I currently call my #1 computer - Dell Precision T3400 Workstation desktop.

And if you are interested in something else - OR - have a VM installed (I use Oracle VM VirtualBox Manager on my Linux desktop) you might want to try different distributions until you find something to your liking. This is what I did and of course I spent many hours online reading and (sometimes) taking suggestions.

Anyway, check out https://distrowatch.com/ for a lot of good info. BTW, Linux Mint is built upon Ubuntu which is built upon Debian.
 
Please don't recommend Debian for a novice. Oooof! Ultimately over-whelming.....

The best way to learn anything is from the ground up. Can you honestly say you weren't overwhelmed when you wrote your first program or installed/configured/used DOS/Windows? Understanding the concepts is the first step towards actually learning something, rather than simply memorizing steps that somebody tells you to do. Now I wouldn't recommend Debian to an end user that just wants to check their email and doesn't want to actually learn anything. But then again, I wouldn't recommend Linux at all to an end user like that. But if you're saying not to recommend Debian to a tech that's actually trying to learn Linux, that's not the best idea.
 
was tired of Linux because it didn't do what an OS should do out of the box.
It will (for the most part) if you want it to. But I'm no master of Mint. I'm still learning all of the time about it.

I started working on / with computers back in the day of late CP/M and very early DOS (prior to any graphical interface.)
 
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