Moving from Cloud Keys to hosted controllers for Ubiquiti UniFi

[timeshifter]

Trying to figure out what to do. I've got about 9 sites with UniFi Cloud Keys. One of those is about to add a new location with a new USG and we'll be setting up a site to site VPN. Also about to install new UniFi gear for an existing customer and they may have two sites as well (a retail location and a remote warehouse).

In the past I'd take the easy route and order a $99 Cloud Key for each setup. Now that's not so easy as it looks like the basic Cloud Key is not readily available. There are Gen 2 editions, one at $179 (currently sold out) and one at $199 that's available.

What should I do?

I think the right path is to run my own controller in the could or in house. Not really liking running it in house, I don't have any servers that I'm running 24/7 in house and really don't want to have to fool with that. So I guess the hosted idea is better. HostiFi comes up in Google but $99 / month is not on my radar right now. I'm sure they're good but and I could pass that on to customers but not interested in going that route yet.

I do have a Digital Ocean droplet running online for one service. Since I'm already working with them maybe that's a way to go.

I hear about AWS a lot for this, but I'm not plugged in to that either.

My concerns:
1) Ongoing cost
2) Security
3) Ease of use

Any guidance you guys can provide is appreciated as always!

 

[HCHTech]

I've had pretty good luck with Hostifi, and I'm sure @YeOldeStonecat will chime in with a vote for them as well. Beats the heck out of buying and maintaining cloud keys.

 

[timeshifter]

At first I'm balking at the price. This doesn't feel like a $100 a month problem. I've only got about 50 devices out there across those 9 Cloud Keys. That's the good news, as I wouldn't cross the $100 a month 250 device threshold for a while. Assuming the price they list is what it is - i.e. can I get a smaller package for less, any deals not readily listed on their site?

Anyway, this piqued my interest:
"What is the scope of your support?
Our team provides support for both the server and the devices via live chat, phone, and email."

Is the scope of their support limited to connections to the controller and controller issues, or do they include help on other more broad ranging topics like "need help with configuring site to site VPN" or "this connection keeps dropping and I don't know why"?

If the latter is the case then it makes that $99 seem less of an obstacle.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@timeshifter They function as Unifi Tier 1 and at times tier 2 support too.

 

[timeshifter]

@timeshifter They function as Unifi Tier 1 and at times tier 2 support too.

Do you know if that support is included in my $99?

I'd call or message them myself, but their site says they'll be back on Monday.

 

[Markverhyden]

I've got two controllers running on two separate MAPS accounts using the $100 per month Azure credit in each case. Come out to about 30/month each but we don't have a whole lot. But it's all on me to maintain. I've only got one site left running the a CK and will move them to to a CC when it's convenient. The CK is a nice idea for an in house tech or just one or two sites.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Do you know if that support is included in my $99?

I'd call or message them myself, but their site says they'll be back on Monday.

I believe so, but I don't use it myself. I do however keep an eye on them, because they're a great resource to know what firmware / controller versions I should be using.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

As you might know, I got going with Ubiquiti way back in the early days before they were well known, and when their Unifi controller first went multi tenant, I wrote a guide here at Technibble on building your own controller (back then I did it at Rackspace). Since then I've had a few controllers we build, eventually moving to LiquidWeb.

But you know what? I got tired of maintaining them, monitoring backups, doing upgrades, host OS updates, and...well, the keys to your clients networks are in there, and I don't want to spent my time dealing with security of the host OS and all that stuff. Gets time consuming, and expensive.

Reilly Chase came out with Hostifi...I watched them for almost a year and saw he was serious, and moved all the sites of 2 of my controllers over to him. (I was running 3 controllers)

So happy with the service, haven't looked back. Very glad to get rid of the headaches of maintenance.

The support is great, Safwan is his head guy, he came from Ubiquiti, knows his stuff, answers quick. I fire of an email I usually hear back in well less than an hour.

Back before I went to Hostifi...to pay for my controllers at Linode...I just started charging clients that have larger Ubiq networks with many devices. Just 15 bucks a month or so here and there....starts to cover it. Eventually we started doing our "Core" charges in our MSP plans...depending on L1, L2, or L3, the Core charge is from low 100 to around 200...just to help cover costs of our tools. Still a heck of a lot cheaper than Meraki!!!

 

[HCHTech]

Back before I went to Hostifi...to pay for my controllers at LiquidWeb...I just started charging clients that have larger Ubiq networks with many devices. Just 15 bucks a month or so here and there....starts to cover it.

This is the key. We're not an MSP, so we charge all of our customers on the controller an hour's maintenance time a couple of times per year, which more than covers the hosting charge. Since you still need to do the device firmware updates & such, there is time involved, but it's still a small profit center.

 

[Sky-Knight]

This is the key. We're not an MSP, so we charge all of our customers on the controller an hour's maintenance time a couple of times per year, which more than covers the hosting charge. Since you still need to do the device firmware updates & such, there is time involved, but it's still a small profit center.

Then setup the account for the client and put their CC details in it?

If it's cloud hosted, there's a monthly cost attached. If you aren't billing for that monthly how are you making money?

 

[HCHTech]

If it's cloud hosted, there's a monthly cost attached. If you aren't billing for that monthly how are you making money?

As I said - we're not an MSP. We make money by billing for our time. We charge monthly for our monitoring, managed antivirus & EDR, but for the Ubiquiti stuff, we pay for the hosting by charging each customer for a couple of hours of maintenance per year. We've got a couple dozen installs and It works out just fine, thanks.

BTW, when did Hostify get rid of their $49 plan? I think that's what I'm paying each month, I'll have to check.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@HCHTech Price increase went into effect a month or two ago? It's pretty recent.

 

[timeshifter]

BTW, when did Hostify get rid of their $49 plan?

Aww. That would have been more my speed.

Been watching this, looks like a pretty good guide.

 

[VISA MC]

Aww. That would have been more my speed.

Been watching this, looks like a pretty good guide.

Are you good with Linux? We had a Unifi controller on Linux for a short time but I’m not super familiar with the ins and outs, and when the guide didn’t line up perfectly I got lost.

I think I currently pay $40/month for a hosted windows VM that runs Unifi. Vultr is my host.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Correction made above, the other hosting place we used wasn't LiquidWeb, I meant to type "Linode".
Used to pay just 25 bucks/month for each Winders host.


Right now with ~9 sites...if you charge $15/mo, you'll more than cover your cost of a hundge.

It's nice not to have to worry about maintaining backups...
It's nice to have someone upgrade your Unifi controller.....
It's nice to have someone keep the host OS's updated.....
It's nice to have someone keep it all secure....


...back when I ran my own, sometimes when you upgrade Unifi...it blows up. Now you have a big self caused 911 on your hands, and you can only bill yourself for all that after hours time.

Hostifi closely watches Unifi releases....vets them out, waiting, and only upgrade when proven stable.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Or you can use the containers published on docker setup correctly and the host upgrades itself.

Oh wait... that's what Hostifi is doing.

 

[HCHTech]

BTW, when did Hostify get rid of their $49 plan? I think that's what I'm paying each month, I'll have to check.

Just to follow up on this, I checked with Hostifi, and anyone who was on the "$49/mo, max 500 devices" plan is grandfathered into that rate until such time as they exceed 500 devices. I'm happy to hear that, of course, since it gets me out of an imminent price increase, but I'd also like to comment that this is the most customer-friendly way to do a price increase. Props to Hostifi for that!

 

[Sky-Knight]

@HCHTech Untangle does the same thing, it's nice.

I'd argue this method is essential if you want to keep MSPs onboard too...

 

[HCHTech]

I'd argue this method is essential if you want to keep MSPs onboard too...

I can imagine. Once you have done the math to figure out what you're charging your clients and put that pricing scheme into practice, having a vendor suddenly double their price is not welcome news for sure. So you have to figure out a way to get it in there somehow, or just eat the increase until it comes time to readjust your own pricing. When your "stack" involves 5 or 6 or more vendors, this has to be a constant worry.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I can imagine. Once you have done the math to figure out what you're charging your clients and put that pricing scheme into practice, having a vendor suddenly double their price is not welcome news for sure. So you have to figure out a way to get it in there somehow, or just eat the increase until it comes time to readjust your own pricing. When your "stack" involves 5 or 6 or more vendors, this has to be a constant worry.

You mean like Microsoft enforcing the monthly prices as of March 1st, and effectively jacking up prices 20% WHILE they increase the prices of both basic and premium?

But yeah, this is preciously why I don't hide a "stack" behind a single number. I don't care what "sells", if a vendor changes prices my prices update. I cannot control that and I do not want clients that think I can!