Covid Vaccination(s) and those getting what's most likely the BA.5 variant

[Sky-Knight]

There are those at risk, bust most of us are not. But those of us that are not, still have to care for someone that is, be that a family member, coworker, or neighbor.

It's about being ready to deal with a nightmare should it come knocking.

 

[britechguy]

It's about being ready to deal with a nightmare should it come knocking.

And also about taking steps to reduce what could be a nightmare of the worst sort to "bad dream" or less instead.

The best I've ever seen it put:
Americans must hold the humanity of strangers above their individual right to sit in a bar, demand in-school instruction or ignore mask mandates.
~ Maryellen Donnellan

It goes beyond Americans, of course, but we seem to have the worst track record when it comes to, "You can't make me do that!!," no matter how simple and effective "that" has been shown to be at the population level.

This pervasive claim that “I have my rights” but “I don’t have responsibilities” is unraveling our country today.
~ Thomas L. Friedman, America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities, New York Times, February 8, 2022

 

[nlinecomputers]

I too have seen that but I think many of the people who fight it or refuse it are not "safe" because the vaccine is the problem but they have more solitary habits and therefore less exposure.

I think many of them do get sick but they just ride it out and refuse to go to the doctor because they think it is just a cold and it behaves as such.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I think many of them do get sick but they just ride it out and refuse to go to the doctor because they think it is just a cold and it behaves as such.

Because it is a cold... It's not like a cold, COVID19 IS A COLD!

The problem is it's a cold that has a small percentage chance of murdering you, a slightly larger chance of hospitalizing you, and a rather large chance of simply not going away in two weeks like most of its cousins.

That last chance category is more likely than getting into a car accident when going to work, and can leave you laid up longer.

 

[britechguy]

Because it is a cold... It's not like a cold, COVID19 IS A COLD!

Colds, as commonly construed, do not have "a small percentage chance of murdering you." Nor do they have things associated with them such as long Covid syndrome.

It matters how the term "cold" and "common cold" is used both in the vernacular and even by those in medical practice. The fact that something is viral, and even in the same virus class as many common cold viruses, does not make it a common cold when it exhibits characteristics that are not at all characteristic of a common cold.

SARS (remember that, from several years ago) is in the same viral class as Covid-19, and no one ever called it "a cold," either, and for the same reasons.

Something being "just a cold" is dictated by both its symptoms, likelihood of requiring professional medical intervention of any sort, and long term sequelae (or possibility thereof) if contracted.

Covid-19 is most certainly not "a cold," and you're doing no one a service by insisting that it is. Being "a cold" is not dictated by underlying virus class that causes it.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Colds, as commonly construed, do not have "a small percentage chance of murdering you." Nor do they have things associated with them such as long Covid syndrome.

It matters how the term "cold" and "common cold" is used both in the vernacular and even by those in medical practice. The fact that something is viral, and even in the same virus class as many common cold viruses, does not make it a common cold when it exhibits characteristics that are not at all characteristic of a common cold.

SARS (remember that, from several years ago) is in the same viral class as Covid-19, and no one ever called it "a cold," either, and for the same reasons.

Something being "just a cold" is dictated by both its symptoms, likelihood of requiring professional medical intervention of any sort, and long term sequelae (or possibility thereof) if contracted.

Covid-19 is most certainly not "a cold," and you're doing no one a service by insisting that it is. Being "a cold" is not dictated by underlying virus class that causes it.

Yes it’s definitely not there yet. But it is considerably weaker then it’s first variants and I believe in 5 years it will be no more than a common cold variation.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy Keep insisting you're right all you want, but you're wrong.

And I do no "disservice" by describing COVID19 in the same terms that the medical professionals I'm forced to work with on a MONTHLY basis tell me.

Neither you nor I make that designation, the medical industry does.

 

[britechguy]

Yes it’s definitely not there yet. But it is considerably weaker then it’s first variants and I believe in 5 years it will be no more than a common cold variation.

Mind you, I'm not saying otherwise.

But just remember that variants/mutations do not always march in the direction of weaker (though in terms of virulence of illness these newer ones are, but they're more infectious by far). I just hope that the march toward "more infectious and weaker" continues so that we ultimately reach the point where Covid-19, in the commonly circulating forms, will actually be nothing more than one of many common colds. And as you say, we're definitely not there yet, even with this variant, if you look at the stats on hospitalizations.

 

[britechguy]

And I do no "disservice" by describing COVID19 in the same terms that the medical professionals I'm forced to work with on a MONTHLY basis tell me.

Then I thank God I don't have those medical professionals either as my service providers or as public health representatives. Calling Covid-19 "a cold" is irresponsible given the current state of events.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Then I thank God I don't have those medical professionals either as my service providers or as public health representatives. Calling Covid-19 "a cold" is irresponsible given the current state of events.

Yes... because your layman's opinion is as valuable as my sons' endocrinologist, or their general practitioner.

Which by the way... aren't the only two that work and think this way. Given these two have literally saved these boys' lives at least once... I think I'll defer to their medical expertise on the subject.

I think your problem is you mentally equate a cold as a minor infection... it is not, and never has been safe to assume such.

 

[britechguy]

@Sky-Knight,

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

When the CDC, WHO, and other such entities stop monitoring Covid-19 and other nations (e.g., China and its attempted zero Covid policies) start treating Covid as a big "nothing burger" like all common colds, then I'll be happy to call it a common cold.

Until then, I don't give a flying rat's patootie what a couple of medical practitioners you happen to use choose to call it. Why they'd be so cavalier I have no idea, nor do I care.

It's not a matter of what my opinion is, or even the opinions those you are talking about, the worldwide medical community does not view Covid-19 as a cold, in any sense of that word as commonly used by laymen or doctors, so neither do I. You may do as you see fit.

 

[nlinecomputers]

@britechguy Keep insisting you're right all you want, but you're wrong.

And I do no "disservice" by describing COVID19 in the same terms that the medical professionals I'm forced to work with on a MONTHLY basis tell me.

Neither you nor I make that designation, the medical industry does.

With respect, I think you have misinterpreted something. Most colds are caused by rhinoviruses. There are some that have coronavirus structures but most are rhinoviruses. What makes COVID cold like is it’s method of f transmissions, and it’s mutation rate which match those of a cold, if not faster. The common perception of the Common Cold is that’s a minor disease and the only people who can possibly have a serious issue are those with major pre-existing conditions and already knocking at death’s door. That description is both in the layman public and with medical personnel. A doctor saying that it is just a cold now is doing a disservice.

 

[lcoughey]

Most people I know personally are pure bloods. Most of us had it early on and we are all fine. Now the only people that I know of who are getting sick are the vaccinated and the latest numbers in Canada suggests that it is best to stop at 2 jabs.

It is interesting that the Ontario cheif medical doctor just said that the risk of vaccine complications (myocarditus) for young people is 1 in 5000, which is more risky than the virus, unless you have other medical complications.

That said, whatever turns your crank as long as you don't expect me to get jabbed.

 

[lcoughey]

There are those at risk, bust most of us are not. But those of us that are not, still have to care for someone that is, be that a family member, coworker, or neighbor.

It's about being ready to deal with a nightmare should it come knocking.

Sadly, the vaccines are not preventing the spread, hospitalizations or deaths. Based on the numbers from Canada I just posted, it is the opposite effect.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Sadly, the vaccines are not preventing the spread, hospitalizations or deaths. Based on the numbers from Canada I just posted, it is the opposite effect.

COVID-19 epidemiology update: Summary — Canada.ca

This summary of COVID-19 cases across Canada contains detailed data about the spread of the virus over time and in different regions of the country. Includes breakdowns by age and sex or gender. Provides an overview of testing, variants of concern, cases following vaccination and severe illness...

health-infobase.canada.ca

Of these cases:

970,057 (42.7%) were unvaccinated
782,476 (34.4%) had completed their primary vaccine series
357,914 (15.7%) had completed their primary vaccine series and 1 additional dose
13,987 (0.6%) had completed their primary vaccine series and 2 or more additional doses

I wonder what cohort I'd like to be a part of...

Though, the effectiveness of a vaccine designed for Alpha, when we're so many iterations along an RNA virus known for rapid mutation and immune evasion... is well, questionable.

My doctors are not recommending boosters until the boosters are reformulated to work on the current iterations of the virus. We're two years into these vaccines, in a world that makes a new flu shot annually for a reason. My layman's view says the vaccine did work, but no longer does. The flu mutates much more slowly than any coronavirus does, and we get annually reformulated shots for a reason. I haven't seen that happening with the COVID jabs, which is... suspect.

 

[Sky-Knight]

With respect, I think you have misinterpreted something. Most colds are caused by rhinoviruses. There are some that have coronavirus structures but most are rhinoviruses. What makes COVID cold like is it’s method of f transmissions, and it’s mutation rate which match those of a cold, if not faster. The common perception of the Common Cold is that’s a minor disease and the only people who can possibly have a serious issue are those with major pre-existing conditions and already knocking at death’s door. That description is both in the layman public and with medical personnel. A doctor saying that it is just a cold now is doing a disservice.

Causes of the Common Cold

There are more than 200 viruses that can cause a common cold with 20-30% caused by "unknown" bugs. See a list of the most common virus types that cause colds.

www.webmd.com

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

Rhinovirus
Coronavirus
RSV and parainfluenza

Yes, Rhinovirus family is the most common culprit, but it is far from the only one.

And any one of these things could become something like COVID anytime. Heck... one of them did! And now we have COVID!

 

[Sky-Knight]

@Sky-Knight,

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

When the CDC, WHO, and other such entities stop monitoring Covid-19 and other nations (e.g., China and its attempted zero Covid policies) start treating Covid as a big "nothing burger" like all common colds, then I'll be happy to call it a common cold.

Until then, I don't give a flying rat's patootie what a couple of medical practitioners you happen to use choose to call it. Why they'd be so cavalier I have no idea, nor do I care.

It's not a matter of what my opinion is, or even the opinions those you are talking about, the worldwide medical community does not view Covid-19 as a cold, in any sense of that word as commonly used by laymen or doctors, so neither do I. You may do as you see fit.

Calling it what it is doesn't degrade its danger. The ages that have negative impacts for COVID infection are just as likely to have a larger problem with any of the viruses that cause a common cold too. My grandmother died from a cold for crying out loud... These things happen. Viral infections are never a "joke" or to be taken lightly.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Your link simply proves my point. The Common Cold is a generalization. A blanket term used for a slew of minor upper respiratory viruses. Covid is not that simply because it’s NOT minor. And yes some virus that’s labeled as a cold might mutate into something very deadly. And when that happens it will no longer be labeled under the blanket term “Cold” and will be referred to by a scientific unique name. A “cold” by definition is a minor disease. *setting aside the fact that ANY illness can kill someone if they are in general poor health.

 

[lcoughey]

I think you are confused and comparing the cumulative numbers to my weekly numbers. Don't forget, it took a year just to start vaccinations and the better part of another year to roll them out. During that time, most cases had to be unvaccinated.

The 4th graph shows the vaccination percentage for the numbers I posted.

18% of Canadians are unvaxxed and account 11% of the deaths. (-7%)

33% of Canadians are double jabbed and account for 19% of the deaths (-14%)

39% of Canadians have a single booster and account for 53% of the deaths (+14%)

9% of Canadians have a second booster and account for 16% of the deaths (+7%)

Based on this, which cohort do you want to be a part of now? I'll take the group the has a lower percentage of cases, hospitalizations and deaths and absolutely no risk of vaccine side effects.

I post weekly updates on Twitter, for those who are interested in seeing the weekly breakdowns that the Canadian government doesn't seem to want to show.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547196838662512641

Like I said, if you want to get jabbed, great. I just feel bad that many are getting it unnecessarily, adding an extra risk of the unknown long term effects of the mrna shots.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@lcoughey I haven't confused anything, I'm just reliant on a trusted data source and not a random Tweet. I have no clue where you got those images, and the pretty charts simply do not concern me. They're utterly without value in this context. Give me a link to the raw data.

I've looked at several sites that report data from Canada, one was run by the government itself and I do not see the data you're referencing. So if you can point me at it, I'll happily take a look at it.