Why are we using ntfs in 2020
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fencepost
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The best that a defrag can do with an SSD is nothing, the worst it could do is accelerate wear if it thought it needed to do something, but that would require a very naive defragger. The naive implementation would move things around to make the internal addressing contiguous without awareness that the internal addressing was unrelated to how/where data is actually stored in SSDs. There might be some tiny benefits to Windows thinking things were contiguous or possibly to cleanup of unused entries as part of it, but I'd be surprised if there was anything even marginally significant.
britechguy
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I say, "Amen, Amen, Amen!!" The old saw, "You can't fix stupid," applies here. It would not shock me if this was one of those systems where its owner believed "Xavier, down the street," or "Uncle Timmy" when they were told, "You don't need to defrag your drive," by one of them.
Most of my business, though not all of it, where the machine is in a "crashed and burned" state can virtually always be traced back to undoing some default or refusing updates - because someone knows better than Microsoft, that created and maintains Windows, about what should and should not be done. Uh huh.
britechguy
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Even the defragger in Windows can detect if a drive is an SSD and simply drop that drive from its list of those to be defragged. You don't defrag (at least in the conventional sense of the word) an SSD.
Built-in defrag will retrim SSDs instead of defragmenting them. The idea is, that drivers send TRIM requests to SSD immediately when the space is freed. However, if the driver detects high load condition, it may decide to omit TRIMs. To a similar effect, SSD controller under load may decide to ignore TRIMs even if sent. Therefore, Windows Disk Optimizer will send TRIM requests for all free space on the SSD as a part of optimization process.
Sky-Knight
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Yep, defrag on Windows 10 (including server variants) when it detects SSDs changes its behavior to service SSDs. Yet another reason to LEAVE IT ALONE!
britechguy
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OS designers (regardless of the OS) are some of the most clever and focused programmers on the surface of God's green earth. And continuous refinement and improvement is at the heart of what they do.
Which, circling back to the origins of this topic, today's NTFS and NTFS at its introduction are not the same thing, even though they share a lot of DNA.
Which, circling back to the origins of this topic, today's NTFS and NTFS at its introduction are not the same thing, even though they share a lot of DNA.
Sky-Knight
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Yeah, but it's wise to raise an eyebrow every now and again. Let's not forget, the only reason we have powershell is because the guy that created it wouldn't have gotten paid for it unless it was a "new feature". And he HATES it... because he always wanted something that was a proper merging and improvement of cmd.exe.
Galdorf
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well don't tell me i did not warn you about a serious bug in ntfs that can allow anyone to corrupt your hard drive data when it will be fixed is anyone's guess this has been around since windows xp.
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...ts-your-hard-drive-on-seeing-this-files-icon/
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...ts-your-hard-drive-on-seeing-this-files-icon/
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britechguy
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Critical NTFS bug in Windows 10 can corrupt HDD/SSD filesystem
This has been discussed in its own topic. And it certainly appears to be a "bark is worse than its bite" situation. Though it is a mystery why this hasn't been patched.
Galdorf
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Not really sometimes chkdsk cannot repair the damage it has been tested and verified sometimes chkdsk will repair this should not exist Microsoft has been warned quite a long time ago.
The fact that this can be exploited in a crafted website or compressed file makes it possible to weaponize.
GTP
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Sky-Knight
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There are none for Windows, you use NTFS and move on.
EXT4 has some warts too, ZFS and ReFS have similar warts, but do well for their intended purposes.
But seriously unless you want to get rid of Windows, you aren't getting off NTFS.
EXT4 has some warts too, ZFS and ReFS have similar warts, but do well for their intended purposes.
But seriously unless you want to get rid of Windows, you aren't getting off NTFS.
britechguy
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ReFS also appears to be pretty much dead, for all practical intents and purposes, for the consumer market.
NTFS has been serving perfectly well for longer than a number of "newer" computer techs have been alive. The occasional "big stink" about something like that is just that, much ado about nearly nothing. If this were a tempting target it would have been exploited a lot more, but there's really no "payday" of any significance from it.
Nefarious actors generally want some sort of payoff, or a strong probability of getting one. This ain't that.
NTFS has been serving perfectly well for longer than a number of "newer" computer techs have been alive. The occasional "big stink" about something like that is just that, much ado about nearly nothing. If this were a tempting target it would have been exploited a lot more, but there's really no "payday" of any significance from it.
Nefarious actors generally want some sort of payoff, or a strong probability of getting one. This ain't that.
frase
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Damn I have not used defrag since WinXP.
britechguy
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Unless you've been using SSDs pretty much exclusively during that period, which is impossible, then you were not doing maintenance that's standard for HDDs. Now, mind you, when Windows 7 rolled around automatic defragmentation of HDDs was set up by the OS itself, so many of us never went through the setup process for same since it became unnecessary.
But automated and "have not used" are not the same, or even close.
Sky-Knight
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Yeah Windows 10 has a default defragmentation schedule that will either defrag a platter disk or trim an SSD weekly if I recall correctly, too lazy to go look right now.
There are times when this process needs manually attended to, but for the most part you can ignore it these days.
There are times when this process needs manually attended to, but for the most part you can ignore it these days.
frase
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Nope - personally never did. I did mean Win7 sorry - after XP was what I was meaning.
Galdorf
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Ok it has been verified scammers have now weaponized the ntfs corruption exploit to pop up a warning that your hard drive is corrupt call scammers number to fix the issue.
Microsoft better do something fast otherwise there will be millions of unhappy windows users.
this has been weaponized in an ad on many sites.
Microsoft better do something fast otherwise there will be millions of unhappy windows users.
this has been weaponized in an ad on many sites.
Sky-Knight
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The glitch results in the OS crapping out... not generating a determined popup.
Do not confuse yet another scareware advertising campaign for exploitation of this specific bug.
Do not confuse yet another scareware advertising campaign for exploitation of this specific bug.
