What would you do?

[cory92]

Hey guys, I want to provide my situation and see how you guys would react.

Scenario: A customer calls me and says her laptop will not turn on anymore, and it does not have a battery with it. I tell her to drop it off and I will have a look at it.

My work: I take her ac adapter and plug it in the laptop and try and turn it on, nothing. No fans, no lights, etc. So I use a multimeter to test the ac adapter and it comes back fine (correct voltage reported.) So this narrows it down to an issue with the laptops hardware. I also use a pencil tip to check to see if the power input jack on the laptop is loose, it is not. So from what I can tell it could be electrical damage to the motherboard, or just an issue with the input jacks connection.
How would you diagnose this issue further, or would you just tell the customer it is damage to the hardware and would be costly to replace? In essence telling them the laptop will not work, and their choice is to purchase another one.

 

[expresstech]

I've had a similar issue with a laptop a while back. Same symptoms. It is a shame there isn't a battery to test, but from the sounds of it, it sounds like a motherboard problem.

We found a replacement motherboard for around $60-$70 so it wasn't all that costly in parts, but then there is the labor time on top of that. Our client wasn't keen on the cost with labor charges and she opted to buy a new laptop. So we offered to buy the laptop, as parts, from the client. They agreed but wanted to keep the hdd so we included an adapter for them to use the hdd as an external drive. We replaced the hardware ourselves, battery, mb, and hdd with less than $150 in parts.

 

[Stu]

Before passing this off as a motherboard failure I would at least check it is not another piece of connected hardware. Common issues in my experience include faulty HDD, RAM, DVD/CD-RWs and even wireless cards.

Also don't just rely on testing the charger with a meter. Although it might show the correct voltage, operating under load could be a different story. Invest in a universal laptop charger with as many different port types as possible, these are invaluable if you ask me.

Once you have ruled everything out, then it is time to go down the motherboard replacement path. Obviously this is where things start to get a little pricey, but at least price up a second hand replacement off eBay or something like that. You would be surprised just how many people are happy to go ahead with this. In most cases it is still a lot cheaper than buying a new laptop outright.

 

[Mr I]

I had a similiar situation with a Toshiba Satellite series. The customer was using a different adapter and I had to flash the BIOS and purchase a Toshiba adapter for that machine.

I suggest to flash the BIOS and make sure that the power adapter belongs to that laptop. Can you give more details like model, OS etc?

 

[Stu]

Another thing to check that often gets overlooked is the USB ports. I learnt the hard way that once these get damaged or shorted, they cause all sorts of head scratching issues.

 

[expresstech]

To many techs don't diagnose the actual problem.
You have not narrowed it down to the motherboard at all, not even close.
Look for obvious signs of damage on the outside, cracks etc, anything to suggest it was dropped.

Take out the battery.
Reseat the ram.
check the wireless card, reseat it or take it out completely.
Take off the keyboard and look under it to see if the ribbon cable connecting the power button to the motherboard is loose or disconnected..
Lots of things to do

Yeah I agree with that - Lots of things to check before isolating it as the motherboard. In the case I mentioned, we had performed all those steps and more and it turns out it was a motherboard problem.

Though it seems to me even if the RAM was bad you would still have lights on the system - and there wasn't a battery included.

To my understanding some of the smaller ribbon type cables (I can't for the life of me remember if that is the proper term - I'm not referring to the keyboard one) are rather sensitive and prone to breaking after being repeatedly taken on and off, so that is another option to check as well.

 

[NYJimbo]

First thing to to is determine if power is getting into the machine at all. Many different test points like the power switch, the battery bay pins, stuff like that. You could also partially disassemble it and look for fuses if you are familiar with them and test them for continuity.

I have worked on tons of dead laptops that needed new DC jacks but had what appeared to be perfectly good center pins when viewed from the outside.

 

[cory92]

This is definitely a great place for information, thank you very much for your time guys. I did make sure all unnecessary components are removed (no battery, cd-rom module, etc.) and it just seemed dead.
I read a suggestion that you can test for power at different locations, what general locations do you recommend to test? With a multimeter? I definitely like the idea of narrowing down where the power issue could lie.
I felt like the options for diagnosing a possible hardware failure on a laptop were few in number, i.e. cannot use a post card, cannot replace the power supply easily, opening it up is a tedious task that can become a huge liability, etc.
This notebook is a Gateway Model No: 3018GZ
AC Adapter is a Gateway branded adapter, 19v output.
What other suggestions do you guys have for narrowing down the issue here?

 

[anonymous Mac Tech]

opening it up is a tedious task that can become a huge liability, etc.

What other suggestions do you guys have for narrowing down the issue here?

I'd suggest giving this machine to someone who is not afraid of taking this thing apart and doing it properly. There is no shame in knowing your limits and suggesting them go to someone else. In fact its more honorable than using their machine as a guinea pig and charging them.

 

[cory92]

I agree, sometimes you need to hand off work to someone who has more experience. But I do have the will to learn, I just need some guidance. What points are accessible to check for electricity in a laptop? I'm not afraid of taking one apart, but there are numerous screws, and everything is made out of plastic in these things. My hourly rate does not pay for the liability that would come from taking one apart.

 

[atlanticjim]

I'd suggest giving this machine to someone who is not afraid of taking this thing apart and doing it properly. There is no shame in knowing your limits and suggesting them go to someone else. In fact its more honorable than using their machine as a guinea pig and charging them.

I agree, I am just getting more comfortable with laptop hardware and that is in part due to having a few cast-off machines that I can breakdown and play with.

So far I have not needed to refer out any laptop work but. . hey anyone on Long Island want to sub to me?

 

[NYJimbo]

a) cannot use a post card,
b) cannot replace the power supply easily
c) opening it up is a tedious task that can become a huge liability, etc.

If you plan to get more involved with laptops in the future the above points must be addressed.

a) There are post cards for laptops, either pcmcia, mini-pci or mini-pci-e. Its not that they are great at what they do, but rather they do something. I have had DEAD laptops and put a mini-pcie card in and I saw codes pop up when I turned on the machine. Every clue helps. These gadgets cost a few bucks each and you just add them as you go along. Sometimes just seeing a clue will give you some direction to go in.

b) Yes, you can replace it easily. At some point buy a GOOD universal AC adapter. Not one of those $8 RocketFish jobs on ebay that are dead out of the box, but maybe a $75-150 Targus with a ton of adaptors. I just had a Acer laptop with a bad AC adapter, it originally appeared that the AC adapter was ok (light on the unit and good multimeter test) but the laptop was dead. WRONG, the tension pins in the power plug were too wide from use. My targus adapter was able to boot the machine. I saw the same thing with a DELL last week. The customers AC seemed fine, but not enough amps. You must have a GOOD universal AC adapter, start saving for one now.

c) At some point you must get past the fear of the "Opening A Swiss Watch" effect laptops have on people. You will make alot of money and your customers will think you are a genius. Liability?. Get them to sign a work order about warrantees/guarantees or for data loss or anything. Also learn how to work with laptops to avoid easily preventable mistakes like zapping the mobo, breaking ribbon cable connectors or losing screws.

My fingers grow tired and my beer grows warmer, so that's it for now......

 

[NYJimbo]

My hourly rate does not pay for the liability that would come from taking one apart.

Nobody's hourly rate pays for the liability that would come from taking one apart.

 

[cory92]

I didn't realize pcmcia or other form factors existed for POST cards, I will definitely be researching this further. POST cards are great

 

[lawson_jl]

Also don't overlook the simple that some laptops are made not work without a battery in some cases it even has to be a good battery. No doubt a way to encourge people to purchase batteries.

 

[greggh]

I am suprised at the amount of people in here who have some kind of fear of taking a laptop apart.

If done properly and with care they are no problem. I take apart 4-5 a week, some down to every board out. As long as you make sure your not carrying enough static to cook a small animal and watch what your doing you should be fine?

I will give the one tip I give to any techs I end up working with:

When taking apart a laptop that has many different types of screws make sure you dont lose any. Simplest way I have found is double sided tape and paper. I take a few sheets of paper to cover every surface. One for the bottom view of the laptop, one for the top, possibly one for the screen if the top assembly needs to be torn down. I draw out a little crappy drawing of the view (just some lines basically) and put double sided tape everywhere there is a screw hole. Then I remove the screws and stick them where they go. When done I can put it all back without missing a screw. And of course you dont accidentally lose a screw by bumping into the work bench and having it roll off onto the floor (and if they do fall on the floor, get one of these: http://www.magnetsource.com/Consumer Pages/PickUpPalAU.html )

You and I both know how hard it is to replace a video card in a normal form factor pc case. Your mother however thinks its the scariest thing ever and doesnt want to hurt the computer. I always think of that when I hear about techs who wont work on laptop internals. Because once you get used to it, they are really just as easy. And you shouldnt be scared of them.

As for liablility, you have the same amount of liability working on a desktop, so I do not see the point of bringing that up. If you hurt a desktop through your own actions its the same as hurting a laptop. So they cost a little more, but these days it is indeed a LITTLE more.