[REQUEST] Very Small Business options

[Romaniac]

Hey all,

Thanks for helping me out.

I have a client with the following set-up, and is looking to upgrade and get way from the current 'ways'. He is an acquaintance and after speaking between us, we decided I should take the lead. He got a few quotes that came in astronomically high and had options that were simply overkill for this needs.
I lack some experience with this type of work, but again, he is aware.

Current:
A custom-made tower with Win7 hosting files (apparently with 2 mirrored drives)
Files remotely accessible via Google Backup and Sync (Drive).
Carbonite backup.
2-8 regular users (desktops and laptops).
MS Office installed on machines. They may have a MS365 sub, but unsure.

The issues are that they need access to the files on the server and be able to edit them real time on the server, and the Google SnB is getting annoying for them.

Needs:
Be able to access files remotely as well as edit them while on the server.
New server box, as the current one is old and is making the client nervous.
Storage requirements are minimal. 2TB is way more than enough.
Keep costs down.
Keep it as simple as possible both for end user, and for the actual set-up.
2-8 users.
Preferred not to have a subscription to anything, though he is open to it, especially if it's reasonable and it's the only way to avoid domains, etc.

Permissions.

Questions:
Any box recommendations? I have begun talking to Dell to see what basic options they have aside from what's available on the website.

What are the alternatives to standard Windows Server set-ups?
Is there anyway to get their needs met without running Windows Server on the host machine? I'd REALLY like to avoid domains and all the WinServer that comes along, licensing, etc.
Anyway to have multi-user VPN without WinServer?


Thanks for the assistance!

 

[Romaniac]

Sometimes the laptops may be disconnected for a while. Then, they may end up in the field, with a hot-spot or something that isn't very speedy.
Would file need to 'sync' first? Or would the Dropbox folder on the host machine just act as a regular folder that can be accessed just like with a VPN?

Also, can one edit and save an Excel file right onto the host machine? (no saving locally, etc)

 

[Romaniac]

Heh, I was just on that page a few minutes ago. That seems to be connected to co-authoring, and it seems to require the following:


Who can use the co-authoring feature?

• Dropbox Basic and Pro: You need a Microsoft account to co-author their files online, but will not need an Office 365 license.
• Dropbox Business: You need an enterprise Microsoft account, and a license that allows editing in Office Online.

 

[Romaniac]

He has local MS copies - don't want to spend on MS365 sub.


I'm starting to lean more towards a one-time payment for a VPN solution. That should work as a MS VPN, right?
Start VPN, enter credentials, connect to file server. Open an Excel file; local MS Excel executes the processing of the file, but the file is on the server, and is edited on the server.

Looking into SoftEther...

 

[glennd]

Hey all,

Thanks for helping me out.

I have a client with the following set-up, and is looking to upgrade and get way from the current 'ways'. He is an acquaintance and after speaking between us, we decided I should take the lead. He got a few quotes that came in astronomically high and had options that were simply overkill for this needs.
I lack some experience with this type of work, but again, he is aware.

Current:
A custom-made tower with Win7 hosting files (apparently with 2 mirrored drives)
Files remotely accessible via Google Backup and Sync (Drive).
Carbonite backup.
2-8 regular users (desktops and laptops).
MS Office installed on machines. They may have a MS365 sub, but unsure.

The issues are that they need access to the files on the server and be able to edit them real time on the server, and the Google SnB is getting annoying for them.

Needs:
Be able to access files remotely as well as edit them while on the server.
New server box, as the current one is old and is making the client nervous.
Storage requirements are minimal. 2TB is way more than enough.
Keep costs down.
Keep it as simple as possible both for end user, and for the actual set-up.
2-8 users.
Preferred not to have a subscription to anything, though he is open to it, especially if it's reasonable and it's the only way to avoid domains, etc.

Permissions.

Questions:
Any box recommendations? I have begun talking to Dell to see what basic options they have aside from what's available on the website.

What are the alternatives to standard Windows Server set-ups?
Is there anyway to get their needs met without running Windows Server on the host machine? I'd REALLY like to avoid domains and all the WinServer that comes along, licensing, etc.
Anyway to have multi-user VPN without WinServer?


Thanks for the assistance!

Sounds like a job for Synology: https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/DS218+

 

[Romaniac]

Oh, that's funny... totally lost the 'not' in "but will not need an Office 365 license".
For Pro it's $200/year and I have to look at permission abilities to see if it's enough.

Yeah, I ran into Synology on these forums and in looking, but thought them pricey. I went ahead and inquired for some options.


I really think a well made third party VPN would be the solution here. VPN into the file server, open file on server, edit it and save it. Having trouble finding one though.

SoftEther looks really cool, but looks like a lot of hands on, and will probably kick my arse. It also seems like if something went wrong, it would be a pain to troubleshoot.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'd take them to Office 365....if he just has basic office files, why not get them on Sharepoint.
Why deal with clunky VPN's and all that stuff just for a small office.

Can start with a basic Biz O365 account and when their local installs of MS Office get a bit old...upgrade the licenses to Biz Premium.

Or if he's against the Microsoft convention...go to DattoDrive. Excellent "bang for the buck" cloud storage, has a local syn client. Or can map drive to it using NetDrive app for those that need a drive letter in My Computer to get to that S:\(Shared) drive.

Setup a SAAS backup like Dattos BackupIfy....to keep a 3rd party backup version.

 

[Mytechid]

What vertical are they in?
- Is there a program in that vertical market that could resolve this issue easily?

Why are they accessing the files at the same time?
- If you're talking about files that are always active (like SQL) now they really need to be concerned about proper backups for quick recovery times both onsite and from the cloud.
What files are they actually accessing (you hint at Microsoft here but don't really say)?
- Like I just pointed out, the file type matters, it affects your method of "cheap backup" or "reliable backup", and you don't want to be involved in a pricing war here. If they cry over the price of a quality backup you should just step back and remove your involvement. Friend or not, liability for their data is their responsibility, and no real friend would ask you to take that responsibility on your own shoulders.
Where are the files being accessed from (In the office, in the field, at home)?
- Do they have a VPN currently providing a secure connection to their office files?
- If laptops are out of the office (seems obvious that they are) are they being encrypted for security (whats the liability for data loss/damage to the company if a laptop goes missing/car-jacked, etc.)?

Seems to me there are quite a few empty pieces to this puzzle. I'd get more info before I pitch anything to them honestly. IF you do provide anything you absolutely want to have a contract in place in the event you do any ongoing work for them. Don't accept responsibility for anything. Contract, contract, contract. Saves your butt 99% of the time.

Now on to other thoughts...

Would it be more cost effective to just do a hosted file server at your office that they can VPN into, and you can manage security for them? Maybe this would be the "cheap" alternative and create a dedicated MRR for you?
Have you thought about a Cloud Windows Server that's already behind an industry secured firewall (slap on your managed AV, set group policy, etc., and set up the VPN)?

Dropbox or some other file sharing app may work just fine, but like other's are pointing out, multiple people editing a file at once will result in multiple file copies. I've seen this on Dropbox..can be a PITA, especially if the client calls you back and wants your help sorting it out.

Here's the thing...
If this is a one-off, you should charge a premium. If the price is an issue after you've done your research and due-diligence, then you don't want this gig, trust me.

People who balk at the price over a quality solution are really just telling you that your sales presentation didn't convince them of the points they're still caught up on. Find out what the hangup is on their end, weed that out, so your not in the typical pricing war to land the final sale.

 

[Mytechid]

No.

Please see https://www.dropbox.com/help/files-folders/edit-microsoft-office-documents as suggested earlier.

Thank you for pointing that out! I'm not currently reselling or using Dropbox, so I was only basing my input on past experience...my bad, sorry! After reading that article I do have a point to make, however.

They will have to get used to logging into Dropbox to edit their files. That may be a no-go for some people, as they often times are a creature of habit. Office Online isn't the same thing as the desktop version. So while this may be a GREAT way to go to simplify cost...be sure they get to test it before you seal the deal.

Can I co-author documents on desktop or mobile?
No, co-authoring does not work on Office documents accessed from your desktop, or from Office mobile. To co-author an Office Online file, two things must be true:

• The Office file must have been accessed from dropbox.com
• The file must be saved in a shared folder

 

[Romaniac]

Mytechid,

That's a lot of questions. It's a simple set up. I mentioned MS Office I believe; it's just word, excel, powerpoint and access.
No SQL or anything like that. It's a small business who has been using Google Drive and now wants a bit of a change.

Dropbox and Office365 can add up fast and he's trying to get away from subscriptions; which I can't blame him for.


The main focus is: How can we get a MS Server VPN like function, without running all the equipment and additional bells and whistles which would remain unused.


I am leaning more Synology NAS and it looks like they have a couple of ways of accessing data remotely, including a VPN solution. I'm not sure if it has limitations or what, because the person I've been speaking with for some reason didn't bring that up when they too recommended the DS218+ (@glennd); instead mentioned WebDAV.

 

[Mytechid]

I am leaning more Synology NAS and it looks like they have a couple of ways of accessing data remotely, including a VPN solution. I'm not sure if it has limitations or what, because the person I've been speaking with for some reason didn't bring that up when they too recommended the DS218+ (@glennd); instead mentioned WebDAV.

Isn't Access a databasing software? Live data there?

Personally, I think it's a mistake not to ask those questions. IF your a Tech/IT Firm Owner, and you're getting involved with other companies IT decisions/data, you're already exhibiting a shared liability.

Try a NAS, get a good CPU though. Maybe let them try it for as long as your vendor's return policy lasts, so if it doesn't work out you can return it for a small fee.

Best of luck to you!

 

[fencepost]

For what you described, Office365 Business (without email) would be $66/month or so, and it's well-supported and well-documented, no real special configurations. The main question would probably be whether they're actually using anything built around Access.

Edit: Or you can look at Lisa & Adam's information: https://callthatgirl.com/office-365-migration-outsourcing-information/ which leads me to believe you'd want it to be a little higher than that price-wise.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

With cloud storage, NAS storage...both of which have sync clients and web access....why the focus on old VPN? Newer methods have made file access soooo much easier.

 

[Markverhyden]

Since no mention has been made, what type of business are they in?

 

[Romaniac]

Thanks for the input guys.

@Mytechid The Access files could be database type files, but they are report type files; 'static' databases. No software or services are actually accessing the database(s) while the file sits on the server. They are accessed only to be created or edited. Good mention though. I may just ask that to be 100% sure.



@Markverhyden - mostly asbestos inspectors.



@YeOldeStonecat - I am leaning towards a NAS. They mentioned something about WebDAV for remote access, but the box I;m looking at can also run a VPN.

The main thing is to be able to open a file on a NAS/server - and keep it there while the user EDITS it using locally installed software on a remote laptop.


Do you have some better and smoother suggestions?

 

[Markverhyden]

@Markverhyden - mostly asbestos inspectors.

I always ask this question as one needs to be alert for any statutory requirements based on customer industry. In this case there probably is none unless the state has something, which I doubt.

On the Access stuff. I'm guessing they are probably templates that are filled out after inspections? If so you can have the base template(s) set as read only which forces them to open a copy to create the reports.

Synology, which is very popular, does have a VPN service. Works fine for remote access. @YeOldeStonecat mentioned DattoDrive, which is based on ownCloud. I've been running my private ownCloud server for several years and have been very happy with it's performance.

Personally I prefer to have a separate VPN device. While I've setup Synology VPN it's been a bit troublesome compared to other stand alone solutions. Personally I like using an ERL-3 for this solution. I find it to be very robust and the configuration, including VPN, is well documented.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

@YeOldeStonecat - I am leaning towards a NAS. They mentioned something about WebDAV for remote access, but the box I;m looking at can also run a VPN.

Most file hosting/cloud services have "sync clients"...which clients prefer over VPNs. The files are already "right there" accessible on their laptop. Most sync clients have a setting also to download only files you select to work on, in case they have a TON of stuff stored there and you have say a laptop with just a 275 gig hard drive that can't hold a copy of it all.

Versioning technology keeps conflicts managed.

While your client may be resistant to "subscriptions"...don't dismiss Office 365. Office 365 is more than just a subscription to MS Office, and email..it already has Sharepoint and OneDrive...so they don't have to go purchase a NAS or some other cloud service...they'd already have it included in their O365.

 

[marley1]

Office 365

 

[Sky-Knight]

I'm with Stonecat, they don't have an infrastructure, and Office 365 has all the cloud features to just stuff this stuff into the cloud, where files can be checked out, worked on, and checked back in via the open and save options the users are used to.

Anything else is just more work, for what? To save the business owner the fear of a monthly? Well, if it doesn't want that monthly, he'll need a NAS, a firewall, and VPNs, and a bucket of training. Not to mention a backup solution, but he needs that for O365 as well.

 

[sctechsystems]

For remote access and editing of files we use Syncthing, Its free and works very good, data is also encrypted. We store any data on LUKS encrypted disks also.

We have a few businesses using it and it just works for them. No port forwarding needed as it uses nodes over the internet to connect endpoints.