Trying to transfer an old XP program to W7, Dongle Req'd.

[thecomputerguy]

I called the manufacturer and they said that the software is nearly 20 years old and it will not work on anything other than XP, and it will not work in a virtual environment. It has to be XP with a Parallel port onboard, not an addon card.

Ultimately she ended up having to upgrade for about $1000 to newer software which should require "no learning curve" and is compatible with all modern versions of windows 64 & 86 with a new USB dongle.

I told her she should be good for at least another 5+ years as I don't see USB 2/3 being completely phased out by then and the computer she bought from me should last that long since it's pretty decent with an SSD in it.

She said she doesn't plan on being in business much more than 5 years so we're good.

Not bad considering she paid over $5000 for it nearly 15 years ago and her upgrade was only $1000 since they still had the SN of her Parallel dongle on record.

 

[thecomputerguy]

Most of these old programs do not automagically find things. There usually an .ini file which has the information stored so the program knows where to look. So the hardware information may need to be edited. Also, as mentioned, sometimes there is an app that is used just to handle the dongle detection and coding.

I looked through every single file and even opened a few of them in notepad. No luck.

 

[thecomputerguy]

That's what I was thinking. I have a few customers who at least used to use these security dongles and I seem to remember some program being installed as a driver for them. The program looking for the dongle wouldn't look at it directly, but instead would communicate with the "driver" program, which did the actual checks.

The dongle was a dummy dongle even in XP. When plugged in there was no notification at all that the dongle had been plugged in.

 

[johnrobert]

Go to a computer recycle place and buy an older business class desktop or look on CL
I just bought a Lenovo Thinkcentre 3.ghz dual core built like a tank for $60 for a client with similar needs
put in a new HD I had to set SATA to compatibility mode to install XP

 

[cypress]

Sounds like a happy ending to the story. Client did excellent to get 15 years out of the software and still only pay $1,000 to upgrade it.

 

[Moltuae]

Sounds like a happy ending to the story. Client did excellent to get 15 years out of the software and still only pay $1,000 to upgrade it.

Agreed. Although ...

Ultimately she ended up having to upgrade for about $1000 to newer software which should require "no learning curve"

... suggests that the software hasn't changed one bit in all that time, other than maybe some cosmetic changes and a rebuild or two to make it compatible with later OSes. 15 years and $1000 later, I'd expect to have to learn a lot of new features.

Sounds like money for old rope.

 

[fencepost]

I believe the term is "cash cow"

 

[sapphirescales]

... suggests that the software hasn't changed one bit in all that time, other than maybe some cosmetic changes and a rebuild or two to make it compatible with later OSes. 15 years and $1000 later, I'd expect to have to learn a lot of new features.

Sounds like money for old rope.

It depends on what the program is used for. Why fix what isn't broken? If the UI is efficient and still works today, then why change it? I've seen some old embroidery programs and there isn't really any difference between what they needed to do 15 years ago and what they need to do today.

Most programs change stuff around just to make it seem different to computer illiterate people and make it seem like it's worth the upgrade. There are a lot of programs that don't add many new useful features (Microsoft Word anyone?). I mean, it's a freaking typing program. Most people would be fine using Word 2000 today. But Microsoft is constantly changing crap around so regular people think it's new and improved.

 

[Moltuae]

It depends on what the program is used for. Why fix what isn't broken? If the UI is efficient and still works today, then why change it? I've seen some old embroidery programs and there isn't really any difference between what they needed to do 15 years ago and what they need to do today.

Most programs change stuff around just to make it seem different to computer illiterate people and make it seem like it's worth the upgrade. There are a lot of programs that don't add many new useful features (Microsoft Word anyone?). I mean, it's a freaking typing program. Most people would be fine using Word 2000 today. But Microsoft is constantly changing crap around so regular people think it's new and improved.

Couldn't agree more. But is the price tag really justified if that's the case?

 

[sapphirescales]

Couldn't agree more. But is the price tag really justified if that's the case?

Yes. The company needs to keep existing to service its customers. Programmers have to be paid, and people need to eat. And the program serves an actual need. They could have said "screw you" and made her pay the full $5,000 again, and I bet she would have because she NEEDS it in order to run her business. And you know what? The ironic thing is these software companies are always changing crap around just for the sake of change and they think that makes people more willing to buy the newer version. But the truth is, a lot of people would actually pay MORE for a program that has the same UI and everything but is totally updated "under the hood."

I can't tell you how many people have said they wished Microsoft would have continued to update Windows XP and just kept the UI and everything the same. And you know what? I agree with them. As much as I like Windows 10, Windows XP did everything most people needed it to do and it was SIMPLE. It worked, and it was stable and rock solid. 99% of the people that come through my doors don't even use ONE Windows 10 "app." Windows 10 doesn't address the needs of their customers, but rather the need of Microsoft to get a cut of every software, movie, and music sale. I'm happy to see it's not working for them.

 

[johnrobert]

Couldn't agree more
When you have come out with a design and tweaked it and then tweaked some more from that point you can only make it worse
but they have to keep changing it for the worse to make a new version different to get more money out of you.
Now we have the monthly residual charges most people that I know that pay $99 a year for 5 users office only use it themselves one user and they will never use Access and all the other stuff next year it will be $119.
Depending where you bought it you could get office for $150 with Outlook now they have a revenue stream for life,
When I had Outlook 2003 with one POP account it was immediate now with 2013 same account it takes 3 or 4 mins to get mail
I know some old farts that are still getting billed every year by Norton and paying it when they have not used it for 5 years

 

[GTP]

The ironic thing is these software companies are always changing crap around just for the sake of change and they think that makes people more willing to buy the newer version.

Teamviewer anyone?

 

[sapphirescales]

LibreOffice and Thunderbird will work perfectly well for many of these people, for a total lifetime expenditure of $0.

But don't tell anyone. It's a secret.

It all comes down to learning new software, something most people are TERRIFIED of having to do. Yet put a smartphone in their hand and they'll try dozens of new apps all the time, learning how to use new things. Or have them switch to a Mac and they'll learn a whole new OS AND new software. It's all a matter of perspective. The 1990's mentality that computers are "hard" is pervasive, even though most programs these days are easy as pie to use. Even software like Photoshop and Illustrator are pretty easy to use these days. They hear that Mac's are "easy" and that they can't screw up their smartphones so they're willing to invest the time into trying new things. Yet even today, 99% of my clients on Windows 10 use a grand total of ZERO Windows 10 "apps." People don't like to experiment with computers because they're terrified of screwing something up.

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

Yes. The company needs to keep existing to service its customers. Programmers have to be paid, and people need to eat. And the program serves an actual need. They could have said "screw you" and made her pay the full $5,000 again, and I bet she would have because she NEEDS it in order to run her business. And you know what? The ironic thing is these software companies are always changing crap around just for the sake of change and they think that makes people more willing to buy the newer version. But the truth is, a lot of people would actually pay MORE for a program that has the same UI and everything but is totally updated "under the hood."

I can't tell you how many people have said they wished Microsoft would have continued to update Windows XP and just kept the UI and everything the same. And you know what? I agree with them. As much as I like Windows 10, Windows XP did everything most people needed it to do and it was SIMPLE. It worked, and it was stable and rock solid. 99% of the people that come through my doors don't even use ONE Windows 10 "app." Windows 10 doesn't address the needs of their customers, but rather the need of Microsoft to get a cut of every software, movie, and music sale. I'm happy to see it's not working for them.

Disagree, if you paid 5000 dollars for software and the only reason its no longer functioning properly is the licensing system then thats kind of messed up. If I find out people can crack that software and still use it I would be down right insulted. If it was just cheap software then thats a different story but 5000 dollars!?

As far as windows XP goes, If you mean simply continue to perform security updates then sure I agree but not because its a good idea but because that would have kept many of the older rootkits in circulation which means more customers and very likely that ransomware wouldn't have taken off like it did.

 

[sapphirescales]

Disagree, if you paid 5000 dollars for software and the only reason its no longer functioning properly is the licensing system then thats kind of messed up. If I find out people can crack that software and still use it I would be down right insulted. If it was just cheap software then thats a different story but 5000 dollars!?

As far as windows XP goes, If you mean simply continue to perform security updates then sure I agree but not because its a good idea but because that would have kept many of the older rootkits in circulation which means more customers and very likely that ransomware wouldn't have taken off like it did.

If your car gets old enough, you can't get new parts for it anymore and have to go to the junkyard to get replacement parts. Stuff gets old, things change, old stuff becomes useless. It's not the software company's fault that new computers don't come with the necessary port. If you want to use that old software, use an old computer. If you want to use a new computer, you have to buy the newer software. It's completely fair. What they did was akin to Ford offering you 80% off the purchase of a new truck because you complained to them that they didn't make new replacement parts for your old truck. It was very nice of them, and not something that you should expect. As it is, most software companies only offer you upgrade pricing if you're only 1 or 2 versions out of date. We're talking about 15 YEAR OLD software here. That's like a 150 year old truck in computers.

As for Windows XP, I meant that people believe that Windows Vista, 7, 8, and 10 should exist, but they should have kept the UI identical. I fully agree with them. They should have instead bundled themes and skins with the newer versions of Windows so if you wanted a new fresh look you could have it, but if you wanted it to look EXACTLY like Windows XP that was an option too. They'e done this in the past with the Windows "Classic" theme all the way up to Windows 7. There's no reason they couldn't keep the Windows "XP" theme and even the "Classic" theme even today for those that want them. I'd personally use the Windows "Vista" theme because ironically I think that's the best UI that Microsoft has come up with. I like the features of Windows 10, but navigating the filing system sucks (which makes sense because Microsoft wants you to focus on "apps" and their stupid store and pay money for cloud storage rather than use your own hard drive space).

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

If your car gets old enough, you can't get new parts for it anymore and have to go to the junkyard to get replacement parts. Stuff gets old, things change, old stuff becomes useless. It's not the software company's fault that new computers don't come with the necessary port. If you want to use that old software, use an old computer. If you want to use a new computer, you have to buy the newer software. It's completely fair. What they did was akin to Ford offering you 80% off the purchase of a new truck because you complained to them that they didn't make new replacement parts for your old truck. It was very nice of them, and not something that you should expect. As it is, most software companies only offer you upgrade pricing if you're only 1 or 2 versions out of date. We're talking about 15 YEAR OLD software here. That's like a 150 year old truck in computers.

As for Windows XP, I meant that people believe that Windows Vista, 7, 8, and 10 should exist, but they should have kept the UI identical. I fully agree with them. They should have instead bundled themes and skins with the newer versions of Windows so if you wanted a new fresh look you could have it, but if you wanted it to look EXACTLY like Windows XP that was an option too. They'e done this in the past with the Windows "Classic" theme all the way up to Windows 7. There's no reason they couldn't keep the Windows "XP" theme and even the "Classic" theme even today for those that want them. I'd personally use the Windows "Vista" theme because ironically I think that's the best UI that Microsoft has come up with. I like the features of Windows 10, but navigating the filing system sucks (which makes sense because Microsoft wants you to focus on "apps" and their stupid store and pay money for cloud storage rather than use your own hard drive space).

Yes we are talking about "nearly 15 years ago" software and 15 years ago did anyone really think parallel port wasnt going to go out the window? Everyone knew that was coming....in fact...technically I think 15 years ago motherboards being manufactured didn't even have a parallel port anymore.

 

[sapphirescales]

Yes we are talking about "nearly 15 years ago" software and 15 years ago did anyone really think parallel port wasnt going to go out the window? Everyone knew that was coming....in fact...technically I think 15 years ago motherboards being manufactured didn't even have a parallel port anymore.

There were limitations back then, just like there are limitations right now. Obviously there wasn't a secure way to use USB, and in the year 2000 there were MANY computers still in operation that didn't even HAVE a USB port. Back then, securing by USB would have been like securing with a floppy disk. You can copy a USB key just like you can copy a floppy disk. And since so many systems didn't have USB, using a USB security key would have been suicide.

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

There were limitations back then, just like there are limitations right now. Obviously there wasn't a secure way to use USB, and in the year 2000 there were MANY computers still in operation that didn't even HAVE a USB port. Back then, securing by USB would have been like securing with a floppy disk. You can copy a USB key just like you can copy a floppy disk. And since so many systems didn't have USB, using a USB security key would have been suicide.

I doubt very much that data is involved in how a licensing dongle works. Would have to be a hardware component but not important as its not really related to where I was going with that.

If you sold someone software for 5000 dollars in 2001 you pretty much had to know that the licensing dongle was going to cause an issue on the next computer upgrade. Heck more than likely it was a third party licensing system that already offered a usb method. Regardless in my opinion that makes it a bit of a shady deal.

 

[sapphirescales]

I doubt very much that data is involved in how a licensing dongle works. Would have to be a hardware component but not important as its not really related to where I was going with that.

If you sold someone software for 5000 dollars in 2001 you pretty much had to know that the licensing dongle was going to cause an issue on the next computer upgrade. Heck more than likely it was a third party licensing system that already offered a usb method. Regardless in my opinion that makes it a bit of a shady deal.

Like I said, nothing is stopping her (or anyone else) from using the old version of that program. All they need is an old computer. But if they want to use it on a new computer, they have to pay for the new version. That's completely and totally fair. Just like nothing's stopping someone from using an old car that they no longer make parts for. They just have to go to the junkyard, or buy a new car. The world moves on. Do you think that Microsoft should still be supporting Windows 98, or that someone with Windows 98 should be entitled to a free copy of Windows 10 just because they can't load Windows 98 on their 2016 Macbook Pro (using a Mac as an example because it doesn't come with a free copy of Windows)? Stuff gets old and becomes useless. This is true with pretty much everything.

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

Like I said, nothing is stopping her (or anyone else) from using the old version of that program. All they need is an old computer. But if they want to use it on a new computer, they have to pay for the new version. That's completely and totally fair. Just like nothing's stopping someone from using an old car that they no longer make parts for. They just have to go to the junkyard, or buy a new car. The world moves on. Do you think that Microsoft should still be supporting Windows 98, or that someone with Windows 98 should be entitled to a free copy of Windows 10 just because they can't load Windows 98 on their 2016 Macbook Pro (using a Mac as an example because it doesn't come with a free copy of Windows)? Stuff gets old and becomes useless. This is true with pretty much everything.

Your analogies are kind of off base here. A person buying a car knows its they are going to be stuck with that car and have to use parts that work for that car. If they told the customer that this license method would not work on any computer built in the last year nor any future computers then sure your car analogy is acceptable but you know they didnt say that....also the car would have to cost like 250,000 dollars =P

If the computer died the next month after she paid for the 5000 software would you still not think it was wrong that the company wouldnt offer a free upgrade to the usb dongle version? To me this has a very forced upgrade feeling that leaves a bad taste in my mouth like how teamviewer doesn't let you run an old version of the software if the new version is installed and the service is running. We don't upgrade teamviewer for those new useless features, we upgrade to avoid the hassle that they have created.