trouble with anti lock brakes

[jbartlett323]

First: This is exactly why I will never, ever again buy a car with ABS. The system does fail quite regularly, and costs massive $ to fix. Kinda like air bag suspension on that Escalade, nice to have, but only small improvement over mechanical, and hellishly expensive when (not if) it fails!
Also cant stand the way ABS feels. I have no control over my car. Not good. There are times I am about to hit something that I want my tires to lock and skid so that I can get the extra 2 degrees of slide to the right and miss what I was about to hit. Grow up on gravel roads, this is common driving. ABS on gravel is dangerous! You cant stop because you tires always try to lock.

Second: I agree with everyone, change your struts. Very easy job, just time consuming. You will need that "Special Tool" called a spring compressor, and some common sense to use em. They can be had for $15-$20 at Harbor Freight Tools (local or .com). Improve gas milage up to like 20% and get a much better ride in terms of comfort and (more importantly) Control!

Third: Backyard Mechanics are the best! Got my PHD hangin on my shop wall. had to print it myself, but dammit I gots one!
But in reality, if I hadn't gone to computers, I would be a mechanic right now... know quite a bit about cars, although I'm nowhere near perfect. Can also build a house pretty much from scratch too, (including plumbing, electrical, and foundation) but that's another topic....

 

[codegreen]

Based on the amount of real help you've given and the fact that you yourself are making assumptions, it makes sense logically that this comment of yours should be applied to yourself.

I'm sorry I've offended you; that wasn't my intention. I just know that the last time I had stopping problems, I assumed that the problem was with the brakes. My mechanic determined the problem was actually with the tires and the shocks.

Anyway, I'll leave the actual diagnosing to more knowledgeable folks, and duck out before I offend you further.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

and until I found out what causing it, the most I can afford to do at this point is remove the ABS fuse, which many other's have also safely done.

What about answers to my other questions? Wheels, tires? Front suspension looked at lately? I can see something like uneven tired pressure even contributing to the issue here, 1x tire lower than the others...leads to an uneven stance on the car.

 

[Pants]

What about answers to my other questions?

Sorry. I believe the wheels are stock judging from the Toyota emblem in the center of each wheel (rim). Tires I'm not sure, I'm sure they were changed at least once or twice before we got the car in November last year. I know without a doubt however, that they are NOT balanced. The car shakes when we drive it, and since I had a used tire put on recently (other tire had an unfixable hole) it shakes even more so. They told me "$25 for installation and balance of the tire" Somehow I doubt the tire actually balanced properly when they put it on. But the car tires were not balanced even before we got the car. I could tell by the wobbling of the steering wheel and general shaking of the car when driving at certain speeds.

Front suspension? No clue. Not even sure what to check or how to check that. I got the repair manual for this car so I could spend some time looking into it. Shocks and struts sounds like maybe something I could do myself judging from what others have said.

 

[nlinecomputers]

He just wants to treat a symptom not the problem. I know that having the car make that loud vibration noise is upsetting and seems to be a serious problem but it is the car saving you from going into a serious skid. It's the ABS brakes doing it's job. And yes cars for years didn't have them and they were more dangerous to drive then current modern cars.

 

[nlinecomputers]

So the car vibrates down the road and you wonder why you are having breaking problems? Why the heck did you buy this car?

 

[SilverLeaf]

Front suspension? No clue. Not even sure what to check or how to check that. I got the repair manual for this car so I could spend some time looking into it. Shocks and struts sounds like maybe something I could do myself judging from what others have said.

Aside from a visual inspection, to get a rough idea, do the old "bounce" test. Push up and down on a front corner of the car to get it bouncing....then let go and see how many more times it bounces before it stops. It it continues for more than a couple bounces, then you have problems.

 

[Pants]

@ nlinecomputers...I don't know where you got the idea that I don't want to resolve the problem.

My father bought this car from a friend of his for us, and we are making payments to my father.

So the car vibrates down the road and you wonder why you are having breaking problems?

How am I suppose to know that bad tires are causing ABS to kick on? If I knew that I wouldn't have posted for help. The vibration is irritating but it isn't unbearable or too extreme.

 

[Pants]

First: This is exactly why I will never, ever again buy a car with ABS. The system does fail quite regularly, and costs massive $ to fix. Kinda like air bag suspension on that Escalade, nice to have, but only small improvement over mechanical, and hellishly expensive when (not if) it fails!
Also cant stand the way ABS feels. I have no control over my car. Not good. There are times I am about to hit something that I want my tires to lock and skid so that I can get the extra 2 degrees of slide to the right and miss what I was about to hit. Grow up on gravel roads, this is common driving. ABS on gravel is dangerous! You cant stop because you tires always try to lock.

I think I feel the same way about ABS.

 

[angry_geek]

Don't mean to sound offensive here, but it's cracking me up to see a bunch of computer nerds discussing this topic. Isn't this the same thing we tell all of our customers NOT to do with their computers? GO TO A PROFESSIONAL MECHANIC! Note I said "professional", not some redneck with a come-along hanging from a tree in his back yard. ABS systems are there for a good reason. Disabling it will cause you to fail your vehicle inspections if you have them where you live. If you're not stopping properly, you could have a myriad of issues. This is why you should consult a pro, not a forum of computer techs, who may or may not be pretty damn good shade tree mechanics, who will offer advice in good faith that may very well be completely wrong. GO TO A MECHANIC!

 

[SilverLeaf]

How am I suppose to know that bad tires are causing ABS to kick on? If I knew that I wouldn't have posted for help. The vibration is irritating but it isn't unbearable or too extreme.

An out-of-balance tire will certainly cause vibration, as will a worn or damaged tire. This vibration can be magnified by worn suspension and steering components.

In its most basic form, ABS works as such:

• Each wheel has a speed sensor that reports the speed of each individual wheel to the ABS controller
• If a wheel is moving significantly slower than the others during braking, it indicates that it is likely to lock up
• So, the ABS controller reduces hydraulic braking pressure to said wheel to prevent a lock up
• This can happen rapidly....multiple times per second

That said, anything that affects the contact between the road and the tire (including worn suspension components and poor tire condition) can cause unexpected ABS operation.

So, while the ABS issue may be irritating, the bigger concern may be the possible worn suspension and steering components which can dramatically affect handling, stopping distance, tire wear, etc.. It's all interconnected, so it might be advisable to take it in for an inspection. Many tire dealers offer this service at little or no charge.

 

[14049752]

They told me "$25 for installation and balance of the tire" Somehow I doubt the tire actually balanced properly when they put it on. But the car tires were not balanced even before we got the car. I could tell by the wobbling of the steering wheel and general shaking of the car when driving at certain speeds.

The tire could be balanced and the car could still shake, if alignment is off. The balancing is only for the individual wheel. I've never trusted used tires...the alignment from the car they came from could have been off, not matching your alignment, whatever... Until it wears in (it may not any time soon) to match your car, it could easily add to the shaking.


Basically, what I take away from this thread is that you don't really understand your car. It sounds like it needs some work...you said brakes yourself... sounds like alignment, suspension, wheels, etc. Pulling that abs fuse is just hiding one symptom (of a working abs system) that you don't like. There's nothing wrong with not understanding and wanting to learn...but blaming "scary abs noise" for a number of other underlying problems isn't wise.

And to the guy that doesn't like abs because of gravel roads....abs is designed for poor traction surfaces. People just learned on the older style brakes and are too stubborn to realize that abs is better if you just understand how to use them.

 

[Pants]

The tire could be balanced and the car could still shake, if alignment is off. The balancing is only for the individual wheel. I've never trusted used tires...the alignment from the car they came from could have been off, not matching your alignment, whatever... Until it wears in (it may not any time soon) to match your car, it could easily add to the shaking.

Full brake job was done about two months ago, including alignment. Doesn't help the shaking, though.

Basically, what I take away from this thread is that you don't really understand your car.

Of course I don't understand my car (at least the brakes). Why else would I have posted the question?

Pulling that abs fuse is just hiding one symptom (of a working abs system) that you don't like. There's nothing wrong with not understanding and wanting to learn...but blaming "scary abs noise" for a number of other underlying problems isn't wise.

There is already plenty in the thread that indicates my intentions, which are not what you stated. I'm inclined to think you haven't even read the entire thread or are taking what I've said out of context.

And to the guy that doesn't like abs because of gravel roads....abs is designed for poor traction surfaces. People just learned on the older style brakes and are too stubborn to realize that abs is better if you just understand how to use them.

You like ABS. Some don't. I don't see any point in continuing to debate it, however.

Don't mean to sound offensive here, but it's cracking me up to see a bunch of computer nerds discussing this topic. Isn't this the same thing we tell all of our customers NOT to do with their computers? GO TO A PROFESSIONAL MECHANIC! Note I said "professional", not some redneck with a come-along hanging from a tree in his back yard. ABS systems are there for a good reason. Disabling it will cause you to fail your vehicle inspections if you have them where you live. If you're not stopping properly, you could have a myriad of issues. This is why you should consult a pro, not a forum of computer techs, who may or may not be pretty damn good shade tree mechanics, who will offer advice in good faith that may very well be completely wrong. GO TO A MECHANIC!

Why take the car to an experienced mechanic when I can just ask a bunch of computer techs? I LIKE where I'm at.

Anyway, Inspection in my state only requires passing emissions test, btw. In Texas, however, where I use to live, brakes lights on may not be passable, as there is a wider array of tests of the basic functions of the vehicle.






Thanks all. Thanks silver leaf

 

[brandonkick]

If you have the money, I'd recommend having the car looked at.

For $100 you can probably have the tires checked, balanced and rotated as well as having a front end alignment done on your car. If none of those take care of your issues then you have at least a suspension issue, which needs to be taken care of.

As far as loving/hating ABS or if I agree on removing the fuse. I've always been the kind of person to fix the problem. I understand money may be tight, but really consider your own safety and the safety of anyone driving with you or around you.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Any grinding, scraping, or squeeking noise when you turn? Might have a failed ball joint.

 

[coffee]

I drive a 2002 Toyota Camry v6. It's got anti lock brakes and they just suck.


I don't know if this is how they are suppose to work normally, but when I brake over bumpy surfaces or any type of abnormal surface the car doesn't stop, the abs kicks on. It's very annoying and scary.

We had a green light at an intersection a few months back and as we approached the intersection I saw a car running a red light going pretty fast and almost plowed into the side of us, with our kids in the car. I hit the brakes as I entered the intersection and the car wouldn't stop, it just rolled making that annoying rippling sound. The car running the red light managed to get through the intersection in front of us before he hit us, right in front of us, but had I been going a little faster the car would have hit us on the side and might have killed my 1 1/2 year old.

We took our car in to have the brakes checked and they said. "Every thing is fine...Our tech took the car for a test run and everything checks out" Go figure. The brakes needed work any way, but the problem with ABS remains.

I've heard that the anti lock brake system can be "by passed" and I can go back to using traditional type brakes. Based on my experience with ABS to date, it doesn't sound like a bad idea. My mom told me that an auto repair shop was able to by pass the ABS in her truck, so I'm going to look into doing the same?

Has anyone else had trouble with ABS?

Iam so late to this post but anyways ....

ABS brakes are designed to keep you in a straight path when in a slide and to assist in stopping your car in less distance than normal non assisted brakes.

There are two types of braking systems on each car normally. The front are disk brakes and the back are drum brakes. When breaking, The front disk breaks activate first and then later in the braking process the back drum breaks kick in. This presents a problem.

Should you be driving a car or truck without ABS and find yourself in a situation where you have to break at a high speed you run the risk of your backend sliding ahead of your front end. This is because the front of the vehical is stopping faster than the backend with drum brakes. Should this happen, You run the risk of "fish-tailing" out of control or worse. Should you start to slide sideways you could roll your vehical depending of course on how fast you were going.

ABS brakes apply pulses of braking pressure to keep you in a straight pattern to avoid this situation. They also help in stopping in less distance. It has always been known that one should pump the breaks in a emergency stopping situation. ABS brake systems can pump the breaks MUCH faster than any human can. That is the noise that you hear when they activate.

Keeping in mind that your ABS was inspected and no problem was found then there can only be one cause for them to activate while you are driving. You are driving too fast for the road conditions.

The situation that you described at the intersection in your post could have been much different if you didnt have ABS breaks: You would have noticed the speeding car running the red light and "hit" the breaks hard. This would have locked up your breaks and you could have spun out of control. Therefore, Removing the ABS fuse is not a good idea especially if others will be riding in the car with you. ABS is there for a reason and they do their job well.

Slow down. Especially when coming to an intersection. Even if you have the right of way you can never depend on anyone else to adhere to the laws of driving like you do. I drive very defensively and it sometimes gets my wife to saying " You drive like an old man. We are going to be late". But I have not had a accident in probably 10 years since I started driving slower.

Best Wishes,

Coffee

 

[Pants]

Any grinding, scraping, or squeeking noise when you turn?

No



People, I've counted three or four times now where people have said I don't want to fix the problem, but merely cover up the symptom, despite what I've really said. I'm not going to try to correct this anymore.

Furthermore, something in my car is causing ABS to kick on undesirably, and it should be taken to a mechanic. I get it! I don't dispute that. But at the same time, there are many many people who have disabled ABS in the car and are happy and safe. If you want to keep saying, "ABS is a safety feature and it should not be removed" go find all those other people and debate with them about it instead.


Once again, thanks for the help everybody. I think I'm done here.

 

[brandonkick]

No



People, I've counted three or four times now where people have said I don't want to fix the problem, but merely cover up the symptom, despite what I've really said. I'm not going to try to correct this anymore.

Furthermore, something in my car is causing ABS to kick on undesirably, and it should be taken to a mechanic. I get it! I don't dispute that. But at the same time, there are many many people who have disabled ABS in the car and are happy and safe. If you want to keep saying, "ABS is a safety feature and it should not be removed" go find all those other people and debate with them about it instead.


Once again, thanks for the help everybody. I think I'm done here.

I understand that you never said you did not want to fix the problem, and that you never said you just wanted to "patch" the problem.

My comments were only made because you could have a major underlying problem that is causing the ABS issues. It might be a side effect of a bigger, larger issue. That issue can potentially cause significant damage to your car.

If money is the issue of having the car looked at, please look at it this way.

Would you rather spend $500 to have the car fixed or three, four, five or even six times more to get a different car to drive.

If money is no issue and your just deciding to handle it in the way you have decided, then that is fine. I'm just offering some things to think about.

Either way, best of luck with it.

 

[14049752]

I understand that you never said you did not want to fix the problem, and that you never said you just wanted to "patch" the problem.

Problem is...That was said.

We bought this car almost 8 months ago with about 192,000 miles on it. Now it's go close to 200,000 on it. I'm not sure it's worth replacing the shocks.

Post number two says that pulling the ABS fuse got rid of the symptom (again...of a working abs system) and that "i'm not sure it's worth replacing shocks"
I still say that it's unwise to do that. If the ABS does have problems, it could be a larger problem over time... the brakes are a system...and the abs pump is in that system (even with the fuse pulled). And having bad suspension causes all kinds of other problems, too...(tires wear faster, brakes are less effective, fuel efficiency takes a hit, the car is less safe in general...and so on)


I wrote a much longer reply...but...whatever. It doesn't concern me if the OP doesn't care....I was just trying to offer advice