To witch OS to upgrade Windows 7 or 10

[Martin van den Berg]

Hi

Just wonder what is the consensus of witch OS to upgrade existing XP users ?
as I found there is still a lot of bugs in windows 10 even after the last update

also there is talkes that Microsoft want to force every one to windows 10 even with updates
still available for Windows 7 until 2020.

just want to get every ones take on it

 

[Porthos]

The first issue is most people I see with XP machines do not have the hardware to run newer OS's. In most cases it is time to sell them a newer refurb and transfer their data.

I personally wont recommend a computer with out a decent duel core with 4 preferably 8 gigs of ram.

Got to consider hardware upgrade costand cost of a legal new OS and labor.

Personally I am bias to installing Win 10. If you have solid hardware not cheap consumer junk, 4 years will be here before you know it.

 

[Daifne]

For an XP machine, I would do neither. The machine is ancient and needs to be replaced. To suggest anything other than replacement is not financially justifiable to the client. I would feel that I was ripping them off. I only do work on XP machines that are required for specific business software for business clients and those need to stay on XP.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

XP users = Replace....no upgrade.
Since we focus on SMB clients only (businesses) and not residential, we sell new Win7 Pro x64 workstations.
Will be at least another year or so before Win10 starts getting widestream support from LOB apps and common hardware peripherals.

 

[Markverhyden]

Yep, business customers are still getting W7. It was close enough to XP that their LoB apps run fine. Moving up to W10 usually means buying new versions which is a pricey proposition.

 

[Martin van den Berg]

The problem is that most of the clients "Newly acquired clients" still on XP would not all be able to upgrade hardware as well because of the cost implication. and our lovely $/Rand situation that pushed IT hardware and software cost thru the roof the last couple of months.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

The problem is that most of the clients "Newly acquired clients" still on XP would not all be able to upgrade hardware as well because of the cost implication. and our lovely $/Rand situation that pushed IT hardware and software cost thru the roof the last couple of months.

You have to sell "ROI"..Return On Investment...which includes some easy points for the clients to consider.

*Your WinXP machines run older hardware, older slower CPUs, will be 32 bit so less than 4 gigs of RAM, older slower hard drive technology, older slower motherboard/chipset technology, weaker video cards....it is a "gamble" as to if they will be supported with WIndows 10, and it is a 100% guarantee that..if it does run Windows 10...it will be painfully slow.
*Workstations of that vintage are surely out of warranty
*Workstation of that vintage are...over 7 or more years old...hard drives certainly very diminished in performance, (due to age/wear and tear)...and likely ready to fail soon.
*It will cost at least 4 hours of labor to install WIndows 10. Don't forget...it is not an "upgrade" from WinXP...it is a nuke 'n pave. Program files are not migrated. Now you have to go on a driver hunt. (more time)...now you have to go reinstall end users applications (a lot more time)...now you have to go restore their data (more time).
You're close to a full day of work.
On labor alone...you're near the cost, if not over the cost, of a new computer.
Now...on the occasion we do OS upgrades...we replace the hard drives with a new one (since that is 100 bucks well spent...get better performance, and longer life expectancy)...and we add RAM. Windows 10....heck even Windows 7....we start at 8 gigs of RAM. Just shoot me if I have to sit down at a computer with less than 4 gigs and RAM on todays OS's. So there's more money.

You're up over a thousand bucks now...combining labor, and a little bit of $ for the parts. For a user computer. That will not run nicely like a brand new computer. And it's out of warranty. And its life expectancy is....not much left.

 

[Mike McCall]

The problem is that most of the clients "Newly acquired clients" still on XP would not all be able to upgrade hardware as well because of the cost implication. and our lovely $/Rand situation that pushed IT hardware and software cost thru the roof the last couple of months.

Doesn't sound like a good situation. @YeOldeStonecat is correct in how you should be advising your clients. If that simply is not something your clients are willing/able to do, then your options get narrow quickly. I suppose if I was facing those circumstances and my clients were entirely unwilling to upgrade the hardware, I would focus on making the network as secure as possible. Multiple security layers, try to isolate the XP devices as much as possible, limit or even prevent their WAN access, anything I could think of to increase their network security. But that's only a Band-Aid. I would try to work with the clients to make a plan for upgrading their hardware. It may have to be in slower stages, but it must be the plan moving forward. Work with the LOB vendors to devise a plan for moving forward. For those discussions to have any hope the clients must see the need for the expenditure, and understand the risks they face if they don't. They need to be on-board with you in this or your wasting your time. Worse, they may decide to blame you if it all jumps in a moving hand-basket.

 

[Martin van den Berg]

Thank you for all the great input and feedback. will pull up a detail ROI plan and try and sell the clients in upgrading the hardware and software.

I know that there will be clients that just wont have the means to be able to upgrade the hardware and software, Would you then just leave them on XP and not upgrade to Win 7 ?

 

[Daifne]

Or consider a Linux variant. You can avoid the cost of an OS license, but you will need to add in your labor for training.

You still have to balance the costs to your clients. How much you charge to upgrade/repair (parts, OS license, and labor) vs the cost of a new or refurbished machine. How much that XP machine is actually worth (scrap value only here) should also be considered.

Any way I look at it, the old hardware is just not worth working on.

 

[TominElPaso]

As to your statement/question about MS forcing users to upgrade to WX. To my understanding, not true. They are however in my opinion, trying to trick their customers into upgrading. (This unfortunately is the typical arrogance of companies that have monopolized their field.)

They do force all the upgrade files (they are hidden files and between 3-6 Gig according to a recent Forbs article) onto their unsuspecting customer’s machines who have set their Windows Update set to receive automatic updates.

Microsoft now has re-categorized Windows X Upgrade as a "recommended update" in its Windows Update system which means the Windows X upgrade process will download and start automatically on a machine that is set to receive “recommended updates” the same as “Important updates.” http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/2/10893620/microsoft-windows-10-upgrade-recommended-update

Ultimateoutsider has a great free app to stop this, it’s called: GWX Control Panel
It’s free and it has worked great for me and my clients. http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

 

[TominElPaso]

About your customer, I’m figuring if they are still running XP they’re not to ‘tech-aware’ and/or are small and perhaps limited on cash or possibly just cheap.

I would recommend that they go to Win 7 even if they can’t get new machines or even new hardware.

Here are a few suggestions for your consideration: I would definitely do the written ROI as YeOldeStonecat suggested. (Get a template.) If they can’t or just don’t want to get new machines or hardware; in writing, warn them about the vulnerability of XP and of their data due specifically to the age of their Hard Dives as well as the risk and cost of downtime due to hardware failure. They really are at risk, so stress it. Then offer to sell them a budget priced backup solution etc., if nothing else.

If your regular price install Win 7 is to high for them, depending If you have the time and could use the income or are training some else, offer to take one machine a for a week or so and do the Win 7 upgrade at your leisure for a ‘discounted price.’ (Throw it up on your workbench and do it at your convenience during the week.)

These are my suggesting for a small shop.

 

[thecomputerguy]

All business clients get a new Windows 7 based, Core i5, 8GB RAM, 1TB HD (or SSD if they will pay for it).

If a client brings me anything with XP on it I tell them they need to replace it. I wont even look at it. Vista computers are getting pretty close to the same treatment as well.

 

[LABFE]

I will just echo what others have mentioned. You don't even want to do a Windows 10 upgrade on a Win 7 machine that the PC manufacturer isn't/hasn't developed compatible drivers for much less an XP machine. Explain the security issues due to the end of security updates for XP and that the machine is old in the technology world of progressive advancement and not suitable for newer operating systems. They simply need a PC upgrade with Win 7 or Win 10 if a brand new machine. You can tell them that many PC manufacturers are not even developing Win 10 drivers for many Win 7 machines must less XP machines which are much older. You can find the Win 7 lists of manufacturer supported PC's by Googling for instance "Dell Windows 10 approved PC's." If it's not on the list I wouldn't even upgrade a Win 7 machine to 10. Some "might" work fine on Win 7 drivers, but it's risky. Stay on 7 for that machine. Then simply transfer data to Win 10 upgrade PC at that due time and recycle the 7 machine in 2020. And who knows with the business/corporate use of Win 7 I really wouldn't be shocked if it's end of life is pushed back or even indefinitely continued for a while past that if Microsoft is smart and not stubborn they'll consider.

And yes they absolutely want every single PC user switching to Win 10 and taking free upgrade to Win 10 even without driver support by PC manufacturer. It's part of their current business stragedy and could hurt them some. Fed-up PC users with driver/performance issues will look harder at tablets and Mac's.

Good luck, and if they don't have the money or choose to obstinately reject your expertise you did your job and can't be blamed later for having pointed them in the wrong direction.

 

[HFultzjr]

My procedure for dealing with XP
XP to Linux, if it meets needs.
XP go new computer with updated OS.....not worth upgrading operating system only.
Check all hardware 1st, as a lot of older XP have hard drive issues.

 

[thecomputerguy]

Me here again ... There are only 3 types of people I'd recommend upgrading to Windows 10 (for customers).

1.) You got a new computer with 10 on it.
2.) You bought your computer right before 10 came out, you just missed the cutoff and your computer is still relatively clean/new.
3.) You know why you are upgrading to 10.

The main one is number 3. If someone calls me and asks me for advice on upgrading I ask them why? Most of the time they say they don't know why they are upgrading and I just tell them, "So everything is working fine? Why introduce potential problems?"

I know why I like 10 but if they don't then they shouldn't be upgrading.

 

[Martin van den Berg]

Once again thank you for all the great info, it awnser alot of my questions and open up my mind to different ways to approach the problem and clients