This is for the SMB IT companys only..

[Edge Tech NY]

I am getting to the point where I now have 7 MSP clients (70 devices total). I can handle it all myself so far but lets say I can only handle 120 devices (I heard average tech can only handle 100 pc's). I am still not making enough money to hire help when I need it. Maybe with GFI and RMM a tech can handle 200 pcs?

I am starting to quote higher because of how busy I am getting but still am not sure if ill be making enough when the time comes.

Thanks

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Well, much of the answer to this question depends on the type of clients you have, how new...or old...their systems are. And if these clients run software that is "high maintenance"....or not.

Client with old systems.....cloner PCs, mix matched stuff, SOHO gear...can suck up a lot of your time.
Client with newer systems, all Tier-1, most still with warranty...life is easy for you.

Client with some basic office with a single LOB app or two, and standard MS Office stuff...low maintenance. Life is easy.
Client with an accounting firm that runs a half dozen different accounting apps that requires lots of updates...need more time from ya.

Clients with higher turnover of staff..vs clients with low turnover of staff.

Getting over 200 individual staff across several biz clients should be easy for you.

 

[Edge Tech NY]

I'd say most of my clients are in this category:

"Client with some basic office with a single LOB app or two, and standard MS Office stuff...low maintenance. Life is easy." plus exchange..

 

[PCSupportGlasgow]

Quoting higher a good thing and a step in the correct direction as you need to charge asif you do already have staff or you will really struggle with cashflow further down the line.

YeOlde hit nail on the head above so not much we can add

what i will say is you are hitting that large decision time as to take on staff or not. First staff is always a real shot in finances and you will think you've gone backwards in money (suddenly you go from decent wage to a staff member initially earning more than you) but that only lasts until you get that next contract and realize you can now potentially have very high earnings as you have breathing space to win new clients or upsell/complete project manage existing ones. Then again you may wish to stay by yourself and work the business at a nice comfortable no issues 1 tech only client base which you have built up enough to earn a good living from (and who's to say which option is better).

 

[Edge Tech NY]

Getting over 200 individual staff across several biz clients should be easy for you.

So managing 200 devices should be feasible if they are not all high demand clients..?

Just need advice from businesses more successful than me..

Thanks glasgow and stonecat..

 

[frederick]

Depending on the quality & state of systems clients have, you should be able to handle 150 to 300+ systems.

RMM software will help you achieve the 300+ by using it to perform a lot of daily maintenance and tasks for you, and do the checks. The draw back to this is, if you client is used to seeing you everyday, they may not understand when they don't see you everyday.

Old computer systems, and systems that are constantly pushed to the limits, will hold you back from reaching 300+. Don't fear, that's why they hired you, so this will feed your break/fix.

EDIT: Small clients, or having a lot of small individual sites kills the ability to reach 300+ systems. Travel time will eat up your available service time.

Servers, depending on age, use, and complexity can be equivalent to 1 computer, or can be equivalent to 5. I have one client who insists on using a single Server 2008 R2 box FOR EVERYTHING! DC, AD, File Server, Print Server, SQL/Database, Web, etc. It takes about 6x the maintenance each WEEK than a single computer, and some weeks takes even more.

Something to help with your quotes. I use everything this client has:
User Account Management: I charge more for using local user accounts, less for domain.
Servers: charged a general fee, but if it is 5+ years old and is troublesome, i might charge more depending on the situation. A super complex server like the one described above, yes, they are charged more
Computers: flat fee, more if it is 5+ years old
Network devices configurations (routers, switches (unmanaged/managed), sip phones, firewalls, VLAN, VPN tunneling, etc.)
Printers (if they got nice laser printers and the like, that need maintenance occasionally)
and so much more, a lot goes in to my quotes. When you start talking to them about negotiations over price, don't be afraid to drop the quote a little, or throw in some little tasks you can do easily and don't take away from income: "How about this, for $800, you get everything on this sheet, and I'll throw in 2 consultation hours a month". You are already meeting them once a month, so why not throw in a couple consultation hours where they get to ask you all kinds of questions. I do this, and they look at me less like a company that wants their money to perform work for them, and more like a consultant who is concerned about their worries and what not. Sometimes I feel like I'm their IT guy, business consultant, and therapist.

 

[PCSComputerGuy]

I've got over 400 end users across about a dozen companies. I basically tell them that if they want to work with me that we are going to bring everything up to my standard before we start our MSP contract. Life is easy, deal with a few minor issues here and there on a daily basis.

 

[Edge Tech NY]

Awesome. Those must be some big clients!

 

[frederick]

I've got over 400 end users across about a dozen companies. I basically tell them that if they want to work with me that we are going to bring everything up to my standard before we start our MSP contract. Life is easy, deal with a few minor issues here and there on a daily basis.

Best way to go sometimes. But also depends on the client. When the customer doesn't want certain things brought to standard, then it does not get included as covered by us as part of SLA and ends up being something extra they have to pay for to be fixed.

 

[lsi]

"How about this, for $800, you get everything on this sheet, and I'll throw in 2 consultation hours a month". You are already meeting them once a month, so why not throw in a couple consultation hours where they get to ask you all kinds of questions.

Just out of curiousity, what are they getting for $800/month? Does that not include consultations and labor? Is the $800 only for RMM or do you count consultations and repair as separate types of services?

 

[lsi]

I would say that there is not really a set theoretical limit as to how many devices one tech can handle. It just depends on the customer and what you are doing for them and how much they utilize you. I've been at the point where I've managed 500+ by myself and right now I am struggling to manage 1000+ with 5 techs for some reason. The trick is getting paid for the amount of work you are putting in and that is why it's sometimes tricky deciding on an MSP pricing model.

 

[frederick]

Just out of curiousity, what are they getting for $800/month? Does that not include consultations and labor? Is the $800 only for RMM or do you count consultations and repair as separate types of services?

It was an example. But when we do a managed service plan, we handle all scheduled and needed maintenance. Service, or break/fix, most is included, to include major hw switchouts like a router or a computer goes out (labor only). Most customers with our managed service are less than 2 hours break/fix per month, these are the under 10 computers. And most of the break stuff is small. Dont run in to many at all locked user accounts. I meet with my clients once a month, and we discuss what was performed, what is ongoing and what we got scheduled for the next month or two so as mm ot to have a conflict of scheduling. Typically these meetings are about an hour, and we talk about things that need improvement of course. But consultation time to me is when someone wants to peg you for all kinds of information, and might require you to come up with a plan of action, maybe some options, etc that aren't in your original agreement.

Edit: that cost would also include RMM

 

[Mindfulness]

This is an interesting topic. What are your averages per device?

 

[frederick]

I would say that there is not really a set theoretical limit as to how many devices one tech can handle. It just depends on the customer and what you are doing for them and how much they utilize you. I've been at the point where I've managed 500+ by myself and right now I am struggling to manage 1000+ with 5 techs for some reason. The trick is getting paid for the amount of work you are putting in and that is why it's sometimes tricky deciding on an MSP pricing model.

How are you managing them? Are they assigned sites or as work comes?

 

[lsi]

How are you managing them? Are they assigned sites or as work comes?

We use GFI. Not sure what you mean by assigned sites? We do not assign specific techs to any customer because of the following reasons:

1. we've implemented a helpdesk model and we want phone/remote support to be the 1st line of support in all cases
2. I've had too many techs in the past fail to get back to a customer in time and the customer felt like they had to wait on the one tech assigned to them
3. I don't want customers to become attached to any single tech in case I have turnover, etc.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

So managing 200 devices should be feasible if they are not all high demand clients..?.

When you average out your clients...yes over 200 is do-able. There will be some clients that are "needier" than others. But hopefully you'll also have a few clients that don't need much of your time. So they average out. If you had most of your clients on old cobbled together cloner builts with home/soho grade network equipment...you might have a hard time supporting 200 of them.

See what I'm saying? You've probably seen me state it here many times....clients with newer Tier-1 brand computers and proper business grade network equipment and the best backup systems...life is EASY for you. As well as for them of course. If you keep them on newer systems with planned replacement cycles, have their servers on regular replacement schedules, good RMM software and backup software....you have very few emergencies.

If you maintain a bunch of clients on old systems, home grade systems, cloner built systems...and they run their systems until they die...creating emergencies for you, you have a very difficult time maintaining a scheduled and structured work week. Because you have all these emergencies coming at you from all directions...many of which are very time consuming, and you feel you're in over your head and there's no light at the end of the tunnel for you. I don't like 80 hour work weeks...I don't even like 60 or 50 hour work weeks...I'm on the tail end of my career, I enjoy keeping it under a 40 hour work week.

Fully managing your clients...and having clients that allow you to manage them, allows you to control your work load.

 

[frederick]

We use GFI. Not sure what you mean by assigned sites? We do not assign specific techs to any customer because of the following reasons:

1. we've implemented a helpdesk model and we want phone/remote support to be the 1st line of support in all cases
2. I've had too many techs in the past fail to get back to a customer in time and the customer felt like they had to wait on the one tech assigned to them
3. I don't want customers to become attached to any single tech in case I have turnover, etc.

Understandable. Each week, someone is responsible for the maintenance. We have a maintenance schedule with each client, and if there is any on site maintenance needed that week, we send a tech out to perform it. Freeing everyone else up for the other stuff. Right now, all sites are assigned to me. But as we grow, and have more contracts and a lot less break/fix with some of these clients, I will assign tech's to them. I'm a firm believer that you still need foot soldiers in the trenches who meet with clients, this goes back to my how I'm my clients therapist.

This is why I believe in and how I plan on assigning sites to people:

1) Assign a person who will know the hell out of that site/network/etc. They do not need to be the only person who maintains that site, but they are the site expert. They know everything that client has, how it is supposed to run, etc. But this employee, he is responsible for the maintenance, and he is responsible for relaying any special information/assistance to the other techs. Have a Sys or Net Admin, this is their job. It also removes some stress off of you, and places you more in management mode and less in field mode. Don't worry, you can still go out and turn wrenches.
2) Make that person meet with the client, and build a relationship with them as well as with you. Your techs represent you, your values, and your company. Use them as an extension of you.
3) If this person quits, gets fired, or is no longer capable of working for whatever reason, promote within, and send someone there immediately to take their spot. Build and keep that relationship, and always have a site expert.

You don't need a lot of people to accomplish this, you said you got 5 guys working for you. Take 1 (or 2) and assign them sites. Tell them which sites they are responsible for, that they are responsible for the maintenance (not the break/fix), and that they meet with the client once a week to see if there are any issues that the tech may not be aware of. On my end, I see everything is working fine, but I had no idea that Joey in accounting was having a problem loading his accounting software, or printing and never got around to calling us about it. Tell them to learn the the network and all current settings, etc, and put it in a book specifically for that site (We have a PDF book that covers the site, and then a physical hard copy in a .5" binder). This book is your property, but the tech is responsible for maintaining it, this is the in case someone new has to do anything with configurations, or how things work.

Try it, and let me know.

 

[frederick]

See what I'm saying? You've probably seen me state it here many times....clients with newer Tier-1 brand computers and proper business grade network equipment and the best backup systems...life is EASY for you. As well as for them of course. If you keep them on newer systems with planned replacement cycles, have their servers on regular replacement schedules, good RMM software and backup software....you have very few emergencies.

Yeolde, shed some light/experience on this one. I use a 4 year replacement cycle for computers and network devices, and servers are about every 6 years. Your experience on this?

But I do agree, keeping things new(er) is better. I've worked on my share of 1980's technology, and let me tell you, nothing is more painful than working on a 30+ year old Satellite Telecommunications Receiver and Transmitter (two separate units) where they don't even make the parts for them anymore and this thing is still part of the backbone of some network. That satellite and all its aging equipment soaked up a good 30 hours a week to keep it running. And the guys at the electronics store in town knew by name and always had a section in the back just for me that had all the components I needed on a daily basis.

 

[PCSComputerGuy]

I personally use a 3 year desktop 5 year server and network equip replacement

 

[lsi]

Understandable. Each week, someone is responsible for the maintenance. We have a maintenance schedule with each client, and if there is any on site maintenance needed that week, we send a tech out to perform it. Freeing everyone else up for the other stuff. Right now, all sites are assigned to me. But as we grow, and have more contracts and a lot less break/fix with some of these clients, I will assign tech's to them. I'm a firm believer that you still need foot soldiers in the trenches who meet with clients, this goes back to my how I'm my clients therapist.

This is why I believe in and how I plan on assigning sites to people:

1) Assign a person who will know the hell out of that site/network/etc. They do not need to be the only person who maintains that site, but they are the site expert. They know everything that client has, how it is supposed to run, etc. But this employee, he is responsible for the maintenance, and he is responsible for relaying any special information/assistance to the other techs. Have a Sys or Net Admin, this is their job. It also removes some stress off of you, and places you more in management mode and less in field mode. Don't worry, you can still go out and turn wrenches.
2) Make that person meet with the client, and build a relationship with them as well as with you. Your techs represent you, your values, and your company. Use them as an extension of you.
3) If this person quits, gets fired, or is no longer capable of working for whatever reason, promote within, and send someone there immediately to take their spot. Build and keep that relationship, and always have a site expert.

You don't need a lot of people to accomplish this, you said you got 5 guys working for you. Take 1 (or 2) and assign them sites. Tell them which sites they are responsible for, that they are responsible for the maintenance (not the break/fix), and that they meet with the client once a week to see if there are any issues that the tech may not be aware of. On my end, I see everything is working fine, but I had no idea that Joey in accounting was having a problem loading his accounting software, or printing and never got around to calling us about it. Tell them to learn the the network and all current settings, etc, and put it in a book specifically for that site (We have a PDF book that covers the site, and then a physical hard copy in a .5" binder). This book is your property, but the tech is responsible for maintaining it, this is the in case someone new has to do anything with configurations, or how things work.

Try it, and let me know.

This sounds similar to what I've done in the past with some success. The biggest challenge has been always having the perfect Sys or Net Admin to fill that role. Sometimes you can easily afford them and sometimes you can't. And sometimes even though the Sys Admin is brilliant he's not always the best customer service guy to represent your company. My next step is to do something similar but actually have a sales rep or account manager go out. He sells the contracts, makes sure the customer is happy, asks for referrals, and makes sure the technical team is delivering to the customer's satisfaction. What I am doing right now is having my senior engineers walk, inventory, and re-evaluate every site (only the contract customers). It's been amazing to see what a 2nd set of eyes can often see that was missed by the last person.