SEO Rant

[cmonova]

There has been a lot of post lately about SEO and getting your site ranked etc. Wanted to throw out there a few things. First and foremost I am no SEO expert but I do know what I am doing and have been doing it a specific way for years and it works. With that said....

NOTICE: Anyone who "guarantees" you they can get you on the 1st page for "X" amount is probably wrong...Now I know some of you are saying well I’ve seen it done before and all this other stuff. But, what you have to remember is getting someone ranked on the 1st page of Google is not rocket science. What you will find is the problem comes with "STAYING" ranked on the 1st page of not only Google but Yahoo and other search engines.

For instance, you can have a site called humptydumpty.com and do computer repair in clownville. I can get that ranked guaranteed 1st page of Google for: computer repair clownville. So if you were to pay me for that I would do it BUT you would NOT keep that ranking. There are ways to get sites ranked for a while or even quickly but it does not mean you will stay there and more than likely you will not. So a few weeks or month later if you were to call me and say "Hey I paid you "X" to get me ranked on the 1st page of Google and now I am not there"...Well you can pretty much guess what the answer is going to be "I did what you paid me for".

Another factor to consider is what are you getting ranked for and here is my example. There is a local business group here that has a website for businesses and you can put your listing for "free" or you can pay a monthly fee for what they say are "better" rankings for your site. Well the main guy emailed me today (I've known this guy a few years) and this is what he sent me:

"I see you are on the first page of Google with: MY CITY STATE remote computer repair service. That’s good! Think about upgrading to premium and I can promote you a whole lot more. Just a thought. I know you are a guru yourself. Take care buddy."

I won't put my reply to him because is was not very "nice" which I’m sure he expected from me that's the way our relationship is. My point is who cares if I rank for that search term? Nobody in their right mind is going to type that into a search engine, and if they do heck I’d give them service for free just for being that resourceful....Point is you need search terms that people are going to look for.

Now that does not mean you should do things like "computer repair STATE (Your State) because it's probably pretty competitive and would be extremely hard to be ranked for that term (we do come up for our state that way). Plus, even if you do come up that way for the state unless you are going to do remote work (whole different story and VERY overrated for a business, but won't get into that) then that won't really matter.

You need to concentrate on your surrounding area and what keywords you want to be found for. Then what you need to do is make sure your site if fully optimized because if it's not then no matter what you pay or do it probably won't help you.

Then once that is done it's all about optimizing, optimizing and optimizing again. On top of that backlinks, submissions and a dozen other things to get you ranked and KEEP you ranked. Remember you want to KEEP your ranking that is very very important to not forget.

My whole point is SEO is pretty much an art and there are many factors that go into doing it the right way. There are also ways of spending money needlessly and it does not benefit you. Make sure you research exactly what you want done and the EXACT results you want achieved not only instantly but long term. I have clients paying me very very good money each and every month for SEO work. This entails "mass" seo work for their sites and niches they are in. But, they expect and get results each and every month.

There are many resources available to do it yourself or to hire people in the industry that make a living doing this type of work. To me if you don't know what to do or how to do it then get someone that does and relies on their expertise to survive.

In closing...This is NOT an ad for me to do SEO work. If you PM me to do SEO work for you I will not do it. I am not trying to be nasty or anything but SEO for computer businesses is not something I have an interest in. If you ask me questions or contact me about how to do things I will be more than glad to tell you and point you in the right direction.

 

[Paul Rodgers]

Very well written Dan.

 

[pcbox]

NOTICE: Anyone who "guarantees" you they can get you on the 1st page for "X" amount is probably wrong...Now I know some of you are saying well I’ve seen it done before and all this other stuff. But, what you have to remember is getting someone ranked on the 1st page of Google is not rocket science. What you will find is the problem comes with "STAYING" ranked on the 1st page of not only Google but Yahoo and other search engines.

Well said. Another thing to keep in mind - SEO is often highly situational and what might work in some areas for some sites wouldn't work in another area. There are solid optimization principles that can be implemented on any site and produce positive results, but there is no magic bullet. Unless your competitors are completely dense, you are going to have to put in the time and effort to make your site succeed in your area at some point.

I just checked the wiki and the SEO section is pretty dead. I'll think I'll post some links to the resources, guides and tools I use. Anyone else want to join in?

 

[16k_zx81]

NOTICE: Anyone who "guarantees" you they can get you on the 1st page for "X" amount is probably wrong...Now I know some of you are saying well I’ve seen it done before and all this other stuff. But, what you have to remember is getting someone ranked on the 1st page of Google is not rocket science. What you will find is the problem comes with "STAYING" ranked on the 1st page of not only Google but Yahoo and other search engines.

You're making a crushing generalization, Dan, that undermines your core idea about rank retention, and thats that page rank is ENTIRELY dependent on competition.

So to say, as a blanket statement, that once page one SERP has been achieved, its problematic "STAYING" ranked is wholly determined by what your competition is doing.

So while we can say that for high competition areas maintenance will be required to perpetuate rank, for low comp areas this will range from less an issue to completely false.

You have proved your own disclaimer that you're no SEO expert, which begs the question of why the post in the first place?

Seems to me like its just a veiled attempt to throw stones.

I stand by my offer and it remains open with a MONEY BACK GUARANTEE if results arent forthcoming.

Frankly Ive got better things to do with my time than make offers I cant keep.

You might want to find other things to do than shooting down other members without having any experience of the service you are rubbishing.

Surprising conduct from someone who's supposed to be a professional industry representative.

Dont know what I ever did to you to deserve this attack, but next time get your facts straight, eh?

 

[16k_zx81]

I just checked the wiki and the SEO section is pretty dead. I'll think I'll post some links to the resources, guides and tools I use. Anyone else want to join in?

Yep and thats great. People need to optimise their pages, and that will provide a basis for page rank.

The other part of the equation is backlinks, and without these, for anyone with any keyword competition, page optimisation will do SFA for the higher page ranks.

Purchasing backlinks from someone who doesnt know what they are doing can also be a money pit, as they can be very difficult to formulate to make rank occur. (We have all seen offers for "4000 blog posts". These systems just dont work in most cases because they dont replicate organic linking. 'organic'-looking backlinks are what are actually required to trip the algorythm )

Doing them yourself can be phenomenally time consuming and actually totally unproductive, for the same reason. Now that Panda is here (Google's new algorythm) its even harder to get the formula right.

Which is why I created this product - which is a cost-effective way for computer repairs business owners to get BOTH aspects, and the best possible page rank, in minimal time, with minimal investment.

Anyone can tell you who has done it - a first page rank for any significant keyword will bring in jobs. There's no way to deny that.

Most guys here would easily make $65 on a job. The cost of my service is the first two jobs from that first page status and then the rest of the income is ROI

Think about it. 2 jobs pay for the vehicle that then brings in business from search results. After that, the money is yours from every conversion.

Compare backlinking to adwords.

Adwords = endless money pit. Doesnt mater how much you invest, you never get any improvement in ROI

Backlinking is a different equation. Once you have done the basic work to get rank, maintenance is usually FAR more cost effective than adwords. There's really no contest here for value for money.

Yes, by all means do the wiki post, but you said it yourself, SEO is difficult if you dont know what you are doing. Even a great article in the wiki will only be a part solution for most business owners.

What people need is a system that will just get the job done, without wasting bucket-loads of time or money. Thats where this offer comes in.

 

[OldSchoolPC]

I would like to add that ranking high on "computer repair clowntown" can be very effective, given search ranking algorithms. If "clowntown" only has 2000 people, that might not be a great term. So for me, I'd wanna focus of Computer Repair Philadelphia. Philly is a bit far away, but that's a huge area, as is allentown. Therefor that would be effective for me. Another thing to consider is remote support. So hell, do computer repair Detroit, and then offer them remote service. It should also be considered, that with using the right SEO, actually helps curb the cost of Adwords, if that's your thing. As for "staying" high up in rank, I mean... that's like a client saying that it's our job to ensure that they will never get a virus. The internet changes constantly, as does the way seach engines try to rank pages in the interest of the end user. If you feel that SEO is a lost cause, then don't opt for it. Hell, I hardly even have a competent website but there's no reason to say SEO, and those that offer such services are full of B.S..

P.S. If I do get around to having SEO work done, I'd probably have 16k_zx81 do it for me. Same reason I outsource laptop DC jack repairs. Don't wanna/Not my thing.

 

[cmonova]

Jim...First i'll start with my post has and had absolutley NOTHING to do with you, your business or anything else you are doing. I did it due to the email I received from a local person in my community today and due to post i've been reading, and emails i've received about SEO. I was not aware that I was not allowed to post anything about SEO topics or anything else.

As far as you SEO Speical Offer....Great sell it and do well It does not effect me nor have anything to do with my post. My point of not an "SEO expert" was just to clarify but I can handle my own. And I don't think you have to be an "expert" to post on the forum or to start a thread. If that was the case don't you think there would be alot less threads.

Yes what I posted was a generalization as to SEO in general it was by no means a step-by-step of how to do things. But, I will stick by a blanket statement that once you have page one if you just site there happy things all is fine now you might be surprised to find that you fall off that page.

If you want to take my post personal entirely up to you, but don't question my conduct as I have never questioned yours in a public forum.

 

[16k_zx81]

Jim...First i'll start with my post has and had absolutley NOTHING to do with you, your business or anything else you are doing. I did it due to the email I received from a local person in my community today and due to post i've been reading, and emails i've received about SEO. I was not aware that I was not allowed to post anything about SEO topics or anything else.

As far as you SEO Speical Offer....Great sell it and do well It does not effect me nor have anything to do with my post. My point of not an "SEO expert" was just to clarify but I can handle my own. And I don't think you have to be an "expert" to post on the forum or to start a thread. If that was the case don't you think there would be alot less threads.

Yes what I posted was a generalization as to SEO in general it was by no means a step-by-step of how to do things. But, I will stick by a blanket statement that once you have page one if you just site there happy things all is fine now you might be surprised to find that you fall off that page.

If you want to take my post personal entirely up to you, but don't question my conduct as I have never questioned yours in a public forum.

Mate I will question your conduct as much as I like, for the same reason you reserve to make this post with a bit 'industry association' badge under it knowing very little about what you are talking about, and with a dig at my service in the second paragraph of your original post. You're still sticking by a statement that verifies how little you understand the subject matter (para 3 of the quote above). Thats now public record.

I will leave it to readers to make up their own minds.

FWIW I think you need to decide if you are an industry representative, and behave as such, or if you want to be a private member having a rant and doing a bit of speculation and unprovoked stone throwing on the side for your own amusement.

To try and do both does no credit to the association you're meant to be representing. Up to you how you conduct yourself. Im just telling you how you come across.

 

[OldSchoolPC]

Normally, I'd stay out of such a debate, but this is a public forum and I do have something of value I fell. When I read the OP's post, I did "think" of Jim, but I did not think that the OP was referring to Jim. If I were Jim, I'd take great umbrage to the post, and I would take it personally. However taking something personally, and having something actually have been a personal attack are two different things. I don't believe that the OP personally attacked anyone. But I understand how Jim would take it personally. I can see both sides in this because I believe in the value of, and the "science" of SEO as Jim does, but yet don't feel that for my business, in my area it would be very effective. Anyway, that's all the refereeing that I will do on the topic... Now I'm gonna go back to minding my business. I hope my input hasn't ruffles any feathers, and is viewed as helpful.

 

[cmonova]

I don't use Technibble for SEO so my 2nd paragraph again had nothing to do with our or whatever you are offering. There is another forum that I do most of my SEO work from and make contacts. This is just from the first page of their offers:

Webmaster: Google Places A slot Guaranteed +Cheapest Citations Service
New Year Special Prices - GOOGLE PAGE 1 RANKING GUARANTEED or 100% Money Back! Lowest Prices Ever!
Guaranteed Page 1 Ranking: We Don't Take Your Money If We Can't Deliver - Your Are 100% Protected !
Guaranteed SERP Increase or Your Money Back Great Reviews
"First Page Of Google 5 Weeks" - Guaranteed Ranking & Testimonials

That was the point of my second paragraph. If anyone wants the link to those post titles I have no problem giving it to them so they can see for themeselves that again this post has nothing to do with you as much as you'd like it to be. Like I said in my original post people really need to look into these things to know exacly what they are getting.

Public record that I am no SEO expert is fine with me. Never said I was an "industry representative" or anything of the sort. I am a computer repair business owner just like everyone else no more and no less.

I'll end it with this. I won't put the PM's that me and Jim have exchanged. I have told Jim that I would take this thread down and remove it if he truly thought it was against him or his business. He agreed it was up to me. I am not going to take it down because I think then it would cause more "wonder" as to what is going on.

I will go on record that I like Jim, I think Jim is a super business person and has very knowledgeable post and input in the tech community. I have no reason to believe anything Jim has ever offered is anything less that Outstanding.

 

[pcbox]

Yep and thats great. People need to optimise their pages, and that will provide a basis for page rank.

The other part of the equation is backlinks, and without these, for anyone with any keyword competition, page optimisation will do SFA for the higher page ranks.

Purchasing backlinks from someone who doesnt know what they are doing can also be a money pit, as they can be very difficult to formulate to make rank occur. (We have all seen offers for "4000 blog posts". These systems just dont work in most cases because they dont replicate organic linking. 'organic'-looking backlinks are what are actually required to trip the algorythm )

Doing them yourself can be phenomenally time consuming and actually totally unproductive, for the same reason. Now that Panda is here (Google's new algorythm) its even harder to get the formula right.

Which is why I created this product - which is a cost-effective way for computer repairs business owners to get BOTH aspects, and the best possible page rank, in minimal time, with minimal investment.

Anyone can tell you who has done it - a first page rank for any significant keyword will bring in jobs. There's no way to deny that.

Most guys here would easily make $65 on a job. The cost of my service is the first two jobs from that first page status and then the rest of the income is ROI

Think about it. 2 jobs pay for the vehicle that then brings in business from search results. After that, the money is yours from every conversion.

Compare backlinking to adwords.

Adwords = endless money pit. Doesnt mater how much you invest, you never get any improvement in ROI

Backlinking is a different equation. Once you have done the basic work to get rank, maintenance is usually FAR more cost effective than adwords. There's really no contest here for value for money.

Yes, by all means do the wiki post, but you said it yourself, SEO is difficult if you dont know what you are doing. Even a great article in the wiki will only be a part solution for most business owners.

What people need is a system that will just get the job done, without wasting bucket-loads of time or money. Thats where this offer comes in.

No need to patronize. I was neither trying to imply that on-site optimization was the only factor involved, nor that the ultimate tech site didn't work as advertised. Although I have absolutely no firsthand experience with it, I've heard it works very well, especially in terms of return vs time invested.

 

[16k_zx81]

No need to patronize. I was neither trying to imply that on-site optimization was the only factor involved, nor that the ultimate tech site didn't work as advertised. Although I have absolutely no firsthand experience with it, I've heard it works very well, especially in terms of return vs time invested.

I dont think I was patronising. Sorry if you got that impression

 

[pcbox]

I dont think I was patronising. Sorry if you got that impression

No worries. I'm actually writing an SEO article for TN as we speak and I've added a plug for your kit as it seems to be working for so many users.

 

[mel]

Very true and a well written post there. This is why I never trust a company who say 'we get you page one is just three weeks"' ..yeah, maybe..but they will almost definitely be going about it in the wrong way.