Routers and DD-WRT?

[Diggs]

I dabble with DD-WRT on cheap routers that use Broadcom chips so I can inexpensively set up Vlans, subnets and use iptables (among other things). But wow, those chips get hot quick. Most go into over-heat within 10 minutes or so. I've added heatsinks and such, but that's just caveman-engineering and not for public consumption. I've mostly worked with the Broadcom 5354 chip. Anyone else use DD-WRT and on what hardware?

 

[altrenda]

Cheap routers are cheap for a reason, they aren't built very well and aren't built to last. You can put fans on them but it's still not good enough if you push them hard.

I prefer an old core 2 duo with decent NICs running pfsense.

 

[fencepost]

I used to use DD-WRT mostly on actual WRT54G devices, but haven't done so for quite a while. My home router is OpenWRT on a Netgear WNDR3700v2, and years ago I did a few small office access points with that category of things, but that was when dedicated APs were rare and expensive.

Be aware that it's going to start getting harder to get new hardware that you can replace the firmware on due to the FCC cracking down on manufacturers (requiring that hardware not allow channels or power levels outside approved levels). At least one manufacturer has now started requiring signed firmware - not because that's a requirement but because that's the cheapest way for them to meet the regulatory needs.

 

[altrenda]

The new FCC requirements are for WiFi radios. I wonder if manufacturers are going to lock down routers without WiFi as well. The FCC shouldn't have jurisdiction over those, but that hasn't stopped the government before.

 

[fencepost]

Hm. Hadn't thought about no-wifi options. The current Table of Hardware for OpenWRT, current version (15.05), Available, "-" 2.4GHz, "-" 5GHz looks pretty thin.

And I think that page may be a good example of "If the only tool you have is a Wiki, every problem looks like a nail."

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Did many of those flashes back in the day with DD-WRT, Hyper-WRT, and Tomato. I preferred Tomato though..leaner, better QoS functions...that's what I ran on my Cisco e3000 for many years up until about a month ago...replaced her with an Asus '87.

Years ago I had to cover a large building with wireless, a 3x story building with multiple wings. I needed 20x APs to do it..and I had to do it for some super low price...I think I had a 2,000.00 budget.
I picked up 20x wrt54gl's, and I got a bunch of long "high gain" antennas from Fleeman Anderson, I flashed 'em with DD, ran them in AP mode. POE injectors. Worked pretty good for many years til I replaced them with a Ubiquiti Unifi setup about 2 years ago.

 

[Pixelated Tech]

+1 on Ubiquiti and PFSense solutions.

I've had a long history of DD-WRT on a range of different supported Chipsets. Unfortunately as a few have stated, this is a dying breed. I also don't condone using it in a production environment these days anyways. Especially since UbiquitI has such affordable APs that are ridiculously easy to maintain, upgrade and configure.

 

[Diggs]

+1 on Ubiquiti and PFSense solutions.

I've had a long history of DD-WRT on a range of different supported Chipsets. Unfortunately as a few have stated, this is a dying breed. I also don't condone using it in a production environment these days anyways. Especially since UbiquitI has such affordable APs that are ridiculously easy to maintain, upgrade and configure.

Actually, I kind of looked at it in the opposite. With the FCC getting involved, older gigabit routers with enough memory and the right CPU for custom OSs are going to get to be quite popular I would imagine but time will tell.

I've worked with DD-WRT on and off for a long time and although I looked at Tomato (only glanced at OpenWRT) long ago, I forgot why I didn't go there?

I have to admit, I haven't worked with Ubiquiti routers much at all. Do their entry level routers allow vlan/subnetting by port, iptables or equal? I really need to look into them more.

I service quite a bit of residential (don't roll your eyes - someone's got to do it - heh!) where home offices and extended guest networks (think acres and outlying buildings) are frequent. Using some of these old routers is an economical approach that can be used where $$$ is a big concern for the customer as they are almost disposable. As stated by both of us earlier, they're not really ready for production and business environments. But, I've never really tried any of the custom router OSs on anything but low-end residential equipment.

Thanks for the feedback all-

 

[Pixelated Tech]

Actually, I kind of looked at it in the opposite. With the FCC getting involved, older gigabit routers with enough memory and the right CPU for custom OSs are going to get to be quite popular I would imagine but time will tell.

I've worked with DD-WRT on and off for a long time and although I looked at Tomato (only glanced at OpenWRT) long ago, I forgot why I didn't go there?

I have to admit, I haven't worked with Ubiquiti routers much at all. Do their entry level routers allow vlan/subnetting by port, iptables or equal? I really need to look into them more.

I service quite a bit of residential (don't roll your eyes - someone's got to do it - heh!) where home offices and extended guest networks (think acres and outlying buildings) are frequent. Using some of these old routers is an economical approach that can be used where $$$ is a big concern for the customer as they are almost disposable. As stated by both of us earlier, they're not really ready for production and business environments. But, I've never really tried any of the custom router OSs on anything but low-end residential equipment.

Thanks for the feedback all-

While I respect your angle on this, Open Source is hard to put on warranty on. Its not something I offer my clients. If you want that risk, go for it. You are the sole owner of the support. I'm sure we all have different views on this. This is mine. Its all about how much risk you intend on accepting.

Ubiquiti offers quite a lot for your buck starting at $50 wholesale. Link below. QOS, vlans, static routes, vpn etc..Its almost comical to see how much they offer at the price you get it for.
https://www.ubnt.com/products/#routing

I deploy Ubiquiti for both residential and businesses alike.

Example Residential install: Think 4000 sq/ft of seamless WiFi between 2 AC Lite APs and an edge router for under $1K US installed. In some cases this can be done for less. All with enterprise grade hardware. You can spend the same amount with consumer based products using bridge mode/extenders with far less dependability and zero scalability. Ubiquiti gives you the option to expand with ease without having to rip apart your previous deployment. Im only touching the surface.

 

[fencepost]

One of the things I like about OpenWRT is that it actually has packages - want to install something? add the package. Want to run a bare-bones Asterisk server? You can do that. OpenVPN? IPSEC? Hotspot management? Web server? add the packages.

DD-WRT last time I looked at it was much more monolithic, and I got tired of trying to figure out whether I should be getting a particular BrainSlayer build or tracking down one from another dev, and whether I should go with the most current or stick with a particular "blessed" build, whose build number you could find in the forums if you dug enough.

One problem with the consumer hardware is that if possible I'd actually like to have hardware encryption support and that's just not something you find on consumer stuff.

 

[Diggs]

DD-WRT last time I looked at it was much more monolithic, and I got tired of trying to figure out....

Good point! That's probably why I'm attached to it. Took so long to get comfortable with it I hate to start on something else - pffft!

 

[fencepost]

Yeah, last time I did anything it was "Oh, you want VPN on XYZ? Then you need BrainSlayer build 1234567 or 1234568, but nothing newer because it introduced a security hole. Or if you want this capability you need Eko build 2345678 or 2345679, those have been pretty stable for most people."

I decided I didn't have the time or motivation to watercool Celerons stay current on the builds and politics of the DD-WRT forums, so I stopped using it.

 

[brandonkick]

I've only ever deployed one of the Ubiquiti Unifi AC access points but whole mother of sweetness.... talk about
a dead simple interface (for those like me who know a little... but not a lot about networking), awesome hardware,
insanely low prices and tons of information out there.

The access point I got for $80 replaced a $70 walmart router and put it to damn shame. The local sportsmans club
was referred to me to fix their wifi. I recommended one of these and they agreed. They had the walmart router crapping
the bed all the time, any time more than 4 or 5 people were on it it crapped out. This thing handles crowds of 50, 60, 70 +
people without a problem. I've seen periods where 30+ people were actively using the access point (I can remotely monitor
and administer this access point from home) and not a single hiccup. Full signal strength anywhere in the place as well.

I don't know much about the "advanced topics"... but those edge routers seem to be able to do it all, and usually at a fraction
of the price of other hardware with the same functionality.

 

[putz]

I have used DD-wrt mainly on my old WRT54G routers back in the day. I bought a new ACi wireless router and installed the newer version on it but it just seems flaky with newer hardware so I scrapped it. I ended up buying myself a supermicro Atom board and built a pfSense box instead.

 

[Pixelated Tech]

I have used DD-wrt mainly on my old WRT54G routers back in the day. I bought a new ACi wireless router and installed the newer version on it but it just seems flaky with newer hardware so I scrapped it. I ended up buying myself a supermicro Atom board and built a pfSense box instead.

This is a quality route to take. I have an old Cisco router from an old network I managed with a Ubiquiti AC Pro AP for Wi-Fi. The router needs to be replaced soon so I may build out another PFSense box.

 

[Diggs]

It's good to see that Linksys is working with the custom OS router community to produce modifiable firmware even after the FCC decisions.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...Extremetech)&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

 

[Diggs]

While I've appreciated the heads-up on Ubiquity, it just doesn't fit with most residential applications. Customers are not receptive to replacing their 3-in-1 devices with a separate modem, router and access point. Pricing is also an issue. I've looked at a bunch of Asus stuff, thinking their ASUSWRT would offer the same functionality as DD-WRT, but it is totally lobotomized down to the Netgear consumer level.

So, the question remains as to what is out there (router and WiFi combined) that will allow subnetting, virtual LANs and iptables at residential pricing without having to resort to "The WRTs".

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

It depends what residential market you're going after. With much of the residential market going towards upscale, large...McMansions...a single wireless router is simply not enough. You need multiple APs for coverage. Simplifying a kit for setup/install in that market is the key. Ubiquiti dove into that with their AmpliFi product.
And a new standard is out, g.hn, which allows multiple devices to connect over powerline/phone/coax..and products are rolling out for this. Arris recently released a very cool setup...primary router, and satellite APs that auto connect to it via powerline.

Dabbling with old discarded router hardware, reflashing with some custom firmware...it's fine and fun for the "geek inside me" trying a cool setup at home. But to try to make money from that as a professional service...I'd veer away from that.

 

[Diggs]

No McMansions. I service a lake area and rural community. Needs are relatively simple but having the mentioned capabilities in an inexpensive router would be great. It's more for my benefit to easily and inexpensively setup unique individual situations. I quote Ubiquity pricing and the job just goes away - "Well - I guess we don't need separate networks for the home office and guest cottage after all".

I do use some powerline setups for outlying shops, cottages, barns, etc. and they work well for the low-bandwidth needs. But I still need to subnet/vlan at the main router.

 

[Diggs]

Dabbling with old discarded router hardware, reflashing with some custom firmware...it's fine and fun for the "geek inside me" trying a cool setup at home. But to try to make money from that as a professional service...I'd veer away from that.

I'm trying to but haven't found alternatives that fit my market hence the bump.....