PAT testing in UK and Ireland.

kcooke1983

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Hi Everyone

I am new to this forum. I have been reading the articles on the site for ages. They are a fantastic help. Thank you.

Apologies if this has been asked before.

I have been investigating insurance for my repair business and some blogs mention the need for PAT testing on hardware repairs.

I understand the potential commercial and USP benefits of this but I am wondering is it a must for a start up like my own?

If so can anyone offer any advice?

Thanks in advance.
 
I could rant for ages about PAT testing. I think its a waste of time, especially when the PAT testers want to test servers and networking equipment.

Talk to your insurance people to see what they say, but I really can't see you needing it.
 
I think PAT testing is total nonsense but it obviously gives plenty of income for electricians. Actually, according to the wikipedia it is not necessary to have an qualification to do PAT tests (Australia does).

I have actually seen double insulated equipment being PAT tested which seems completely strange to. Not normally to join in the rants about excess regulation and red tape, PAT testing really does seem to be just that: excess regulation.

Also, from the wikipedia it does not seem to be required in the Republic (UK, Australia and NZ only).
 
Hi Guys

Sorry have been at my "Non-tech" job all day.

Thank you very much for your responses. They are very helpful.

I have contacted the HSENI for advice, so hopefully they can give me a steer as to what is expected.

Thanks again.

I hope everyone is having a good day.
 
I will no problem.

See I was thinking if it was something we had to do (In UK at least) then we could turn it to a commercial advantage.

I can bet that electricians would charge through the nose for the service.

If we have business maintenance contracts we can offer the PAT testing as a bonus/incentive.

That way it keeps the company on the right side of any possible HSE legislation.

Who knows just a thought that came into my head last night when I was looking for insurance.

I will keep you posted.
 
From my previous life as an electrician and qualified Electrical Inspect Tester / PAT Tester, I can safely say there's always been confusion regards PAT testing, even in the electrical industry itself.

If you think about it, the legislation of specific relevance to electrical maintenance is the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974, the Management of Health & Safety at Work Regulations 1999, the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989, the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 and the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998.

The Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 puts the duty of care upon both the employer and the employee to ensure the safety of all persons using the work premises.



This includes the self employed - Even if working from home!!



The Management of Health & Safety at Work Regulations 1999 states:
"Every employer shall make suitable and sufficient assessment of:

  • (a) the risks to the health and safety of his employees to which they are exposed whilst at work, and
  • (b) the risks to ensure the health and safety of persons not in his employment arising out of or in connection with the conduct by him or his undertaking."
The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 states:
"Every employer shall ensure that work equipment is maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair."
The PUWER 1998 covers most risks that can result from using work equipment. With respect to risks from electricity, compliance with the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 is likely to achieve compliance with the PUWER 1998.
PUWER 1998 only applies to work equipment used by workers at work. This includes all work equipment (fixed, transportable or portable) connected to a source of electrical energy. PUWER does not apply to fixed installations in a building. The electrical safety of these installations is dealt with only by the Electricity at Work Regulations.
The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 states:
"All systems shall at all times be of such construction as to prevent, so far as reasonably practicable, such danger."
"As may be necessary to prevent danger, all systems shall be maintained so as to prevent, so far as reasonably practicable, such danger."
"'System' means an electrical system in which all the electrical equipment is, or may be, electrically connected to a common source of electrical energy and includes such source and such equipment"
"'Electrical Equipment' includes anything used, intended to be used or installed for use, to generate, provide, transmit, transform, rectify, convert, conduct, distribute, control, store, measure or use electrical energy."
Scope of the legislation
It is clear that the combination of the HSW Act 1974, the PUWER 1998 and the EAW Regulations 1989 apply to all electrical equipment used in, or associated with, places of work. The scope extends from distribution systems down to the smallest piece of electrical equipment.


It is clear that there is a requirement to inspect and test all types of electrical equipment in all work situations and have sufficient records of such maintenance and tests.


However, there is no specific reference to say PAT testing must be done unlike the fixed wiring tests of a building that are mandatory.



What you will find is that its strongly advisable in a commercial environment and most insurance companies expect it as regardless of previous mentions in posts, the HSE in any investagation WILL ask for full auditable evidence of any maintenance records on any electrical appliance. I know I've been there having been involved in a RIDDOR investigation. Providing a PAT test certificate with historical data took ALOT of heat off.


I hate PAT testing requirements as much as others(and I can do them) but I fully understand the need to have them in a commercial setting as a cover your ass.


I do my own and can do all my gear in a morning saves me an expense I dont need as I can charge anything upwards of £50 per device some charge alot more.


All I'm saying is be very very careful on what records you keep on your equipment.
 
Hi DCGPX

Thanks for the response.

I know nothing about PAT testing and my main reason for wondering was if I have a customer machine in my workshop, and I fix it and I am ready to send it back out again.

Do I have to do any sort of PAT certification on it before I release it.

Perhaps I am overthinking it a bit.

EDIT: Or do I simply need to worry about my own equipment and perhaps any eventual business maintenance contracts I get.

Can you train in PAT testing?
 
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I know nothing about PAT testing and my main reason for wondering was if I have a customer machine in my workshop, and I fix it and I am ready to send it back out again.

Do I have to do any sort of PAT certification on it before I release it.

No you dont need to test it. However if you sell used equipment then you must prove its safe so a PAT test is good for this purpose

Or do I simply need to worry about my own equipment and perhaps any eventual business maintenance contracts I get.

Yes I would recommend you test your equipment ONLY if members of the public can come near them. If they are used solely by you in a closed environment then no technically there is no need if you keep them in good condition and can prove a check is routinely carried out, even a visual inspect record would suffice. Again though a PAT test helps do this and more

As for any Business contract then its not your responsibility to test equipment unless you provide said equipment under a lease then you are responsible for the items - unless you put it into contract that the business using them is responsible but I doubt they'll go for it.

Can you train in PAT testing?

Yes you can and to be honest easy to pass, however I'd only recommend using it as a sellable service if you are very comfortable interpretating test results. If its to do your own then I wouldnt bother as the test equipment must be calibrated each year and this costs £150 to do, on top of the actual equipment itself (circa £350-400) by which you could have done a deal with a tester and got it done for cost of that
 
Never been asked to do this however I did once think about doing it as a secondary business. However I realised if although you don't need to be an electrician to do PAT testing you do need extra qualifications to do any repairs.

So you could be certified to carry out PAT testing but not certified to replace a cable on lets say a washing machine in a care home.

Never known it be a proper with insurance at all.

Is always a good idea to test power supplies and check power cables for any visible signs of damage. It is also a good idea to check all power leads have the correct fuse in them.
 
I now want to go a little off topic but its relevant. Anybody in the UK must make sure any electrical equipment we sell is CE marked. If it is not and causes a fire then we could be liable.

Now I've never personally seen any none CE mark stuff but I would be very careful about buying certain stuff of ebay.
 
Never been asked to do this however I did once think about doing it as a secondary business. However I realised if although you don't need to be an electrician to do PAT testing you do need extra qualifications to do any repairs.

So you could be certified to carry out PAT testing but not certified to replace a cable on lets say a washing machine in a care home.

Never known it be a proper with insurance at all.

Is always a good idea to test power supplies and check power cables for any visible signs of damage. It is also a good idea to check all power leads have the correct fuse in them.

There is no requirement within the UK to be certified to do any electrical appliance repair, we get round it by stating the person must be 'competent'

Any Tom Dick or his mate Harry can do electrical appliance repairs if they want!

We've only just got round to introducing certified Part P for buildings for christsakes!
 
I now want to go a little off topic but its relevant. Anybody in the UK must make sure any electrical equipment we sell is CE marked. If it is not and causes a fire then we could be liable.

Now I've never personally seen any none CE mark stuff but I would be very careful about buying certain stuff of ebay.

Bear in mind CE marked items are the minimum within Europe. Its well known that anything that carries the British Standard kitemark is well above CE standards. Thats why Brussels Sprouts keep fighting to get rid of BS standards so UK has to suffer questionable crap from other places.

Give all our governments their due - All have denied this request from Brussels
 
I realise anybody can do any work, I've done some electrical work in my own home (pre part P) but did follow the latest wiring regs (was 16th edition at the time).

The problem is I have no electrical qualifications other than a GCSE in Electronics so if there was a problem with my wiring I would get the blame. That is why you need to be certified, legally you may not need to be but in practise you do.

With IT it is a bit different, but if we messed up and lost a load of data for a client and it went to court it would certainly help if we could proof we were certified etc.

What I am saying is I replace a lead on a washing machine and somebody gets killed, I am in trouble. If you do as a qualified spark you could probably proof you did not nothing wrong (assuming you didn't).
 
HSENI replied...

Hi Guys

Please have a look at the response I got when I asked the HSENI for their advice. Your thoughts are welcome. I read that we (technicians) have no responsibility to PAT test, but that we do have a responsibility to test a system or piece of equipment is working before selling or returning to the consumer. So as long as I have a process of testing any repairs and custom builds and record this information I should be fine.

Do you agree or am I reading this wrong?

Hello Karl

Thank you for your enquiry.

The requirement to test under PAT is carried out under Regulation 4 of the Electricity at Work Regulations. There has to be an "at work" situation requiring portable appliances to be tested. The undertaking / employer has the duty under Regulation 4 to conduct Portable Appliance Testing, not you - you are not the employer. Under consumer law you have a contract to return equipment in safe working order and there is no difference between residential and business in this respect. You should let your clients be aware of any defect in the equipment.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes

Peter Smyth
Health and Safety Inspector
 
I would say that you have read that correctly. Example being, your client has come in with a laptop and the charger. You notice that the charger is starting to fray at one end. Note that on your records, and also mention the fraying to the client, and note that you have told them.

If you feel like taking a pic of the defect, then I would, and stick that in with your clients file.
 
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