No Fix No Fee

[Big Jim]

We offer no fix no fee.
Had a customer bring in a mac that has a problem connecting to Ancestry from family tree software, she brought in with her a print out of the chat log with the agent she had already spoken to at makiev.
We followed all instructions in the log and also spent some time on their site trying various other options.

This morning with all options exhausted we started an online chat with makiev only to be told that its an issue their end that they have identified and we need to wait for a fix to be implemented.


Would you charge the customer? we technically haven't fixed the problem but we have spent considerable time on this issue.

 

[carmen617]

I would charge the customer. You found the fix - it's not on their end, and it will take a while to implement, but you have discovered the root of the issue and spent time doing it. However, I might discount my rate, or only charge for an hour of work, because the "fix" can't be implemented immediately.

 

[Diggs]

If I can't fix it (but inform the customer what the problem is) I don't charge a fee, but if I can fix it and the customer declines I might charge a diagnosis fee but even that is rare. To pass on a few dollars income is highly outweighed by the good will in my small residential market. Besides Google reviews, Nextdoor is big around here. It's a terribly reviewed and biased platform (which I won't join) but yet I don't want to antagonize it's participants.

 

[britechguy]

If I can't fix it (but inform the customer what the problem is) I don't charge a fee,

That's been my policy as well.

Some of the most glowing reviews I've ever received were either for advice I could not in good conscience charge for (e.g., telling the Mac user that got a mini-CD caught in her full-sized self-feeding CD player how to get it out by fashioning a cardboard hook) or when I couldn't fix a problem but identified what it was and that, in that circumstance, it would be far less expensive and wiser to buy new hardware.

I've gotten a lot of later business from having given advice that I cannot, in good conscience, bring myself to charge for. If I spend less than 10 minutes telling someone something simple they can do, that's always going to be free and worth its weight in gold as far as good will and later calls when "real service" is needed.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Does the doctor charge you when he tells you that your cancer is terminal?

You are not charging for the fix but for the information. It’s broken on the other end. It’s not something you can fix. If your refrigerator was not powered up and you called an appliance repairman only to find out that the electrical outlet was bad would he not charge you for his time. No fix or free is being like a pizza tech and just undermines the whole industry.

 

[sapphirescales]

Would you charge the customer?

If you specifically market your business using the words "no fix, no fee" then no, charging her would be wrong. You should have talked with her and told her that you would research/work on the problem but that you'd charge for your time ($XXX/hour). You can't approach every problem with one solution. It's unreasonable for a client to expect you to spend hours working on a problem only to find out you can't fix it due to an issue totally out of your control and not charge for the time you put into it.

I mean, what happens if you order a part and it's defective and there's not another one available? Do you just bite all the time you've put into the computer or do you charge them for your time or a diagnostic at least? I mean, it would definitely be wrong to charge them for the whole repair, but it's totally reasonable to expect them to pay a minimum hourly rate for the time you've put into it.

This happened to me just a few days ago. I charged a client $550 to back up her data, reinstall Windows, upgrade her to an SSD, and replace the power button board on the computer. There was only ONE power button board available on the entire internet. HP didn't stock the part. It arrived and it literally fell apart in my hand. By that time I had already done everything else on the computer and had put at least 2 hours into it. Obviously I couldn't send it out the door without any way for the client to turn it on (I would jump the pins with my metal pry tool in order to turn it on).

What I ended up doing is charging her my minimum hourly rate for the 2 hours and selling her something else. I didn't just bite the 2 hours. It's not my fault the part is no longer available. It's a 6-7 year old computer. HP isn't going to stock the part anymore. I recommended trading it in instead of repair but she didn't want to spend the extra $150 for a business class refurb. LOL with the extra labor she ended up spending $250 more than it would have cost to just trade it in in the first place.

Oh and before you say anything, no, I couldn't wait to do the rest of the repair until the part came in. My client wanted a quick turnaround and paid for overnight shipping (4x more than what the actual part cost) in order to get her computer back ASAP.

 

[britechguy]

Does the doctor charge you when he tells you that your cancer is terminal?

Apples and oranges.

Everyone knows that a visit to the doctor may, or may not, result in "a fix."

Everyone expects that a visit to or from things like computer technicians, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, and similar are supposed to result in a fix. That is what you're paying for.

My mechanic of almost 20 years now has always had a, "If I can't fix it, I don't charge," policy and there have been at least two occasions where he spent an inordinate amount of time before determining a root cause that he did not have the equipment to fix. Knowing this, I even offered to pay, and he declined.

That is how I operate my business as well, and the way I want any service provider who is supposed to be fixing something to operate theirs (although I'm not stupid, many don't, but I will seek out those that do when I can). The old saw, "We pay for results, not effort," applies.

The only time I charge for a non-fix is if I know, at the outset, that I can't have any idea if a fix is even possible without a thorough diagnostic. And even then, I have a maximum fee of $75 for a diagnostic on a service where a fix was not forthcoming, whether it's because I could not fix it or, after advising the client of the cost, they declined to fix.

 

[britechguy]

I mean, what happens if you order a part and it's defective and there's not another one available? Do you just bite all the time you've put into the computer

Yes. Period. End of sentence.

I've never had that happen (the there's not another one available aspect), but am in the middle of just such a situation with the Dell G15 that I started a topic about.

I would never, in a million years, even think about charging the client for time that is the direct result of a defective part coming into the picture. That's penalizing a client for something completely outside their control and that should not, under any circumstances, become "their problem."

Anyone offering repair services that runs into unanticipated issues, whether those are, or are not, of their own making had ought to think very carefully about whether they'd think it reasonable if someone else where to charge them were the circumstance reversed. All of us get the occasional bad part. Most of us here, based on what I've read, offer a warranty on our labor for a period of time if a part goes bad after a service has been completed. Why would I not offer the same sort of warranty (the redo) if a part came bad "out of the box" or went bad, as the screen did in my case, during the reassembly process?

 

[Laplandz]

I'm with britechguy here, treat it as a an advertising cost. We often do freebie's and give tonnes of free advise which means they'll only have good words when talking to their friends about you. Always nice to get good karma

 

[nlinecomputers]

You avoid this problem by charging diagnostic fees. Everything is repairable or failing that replaceable. It often isn’t worth the money to repair. That’s the real issue. If I don’t have the skills to correct the issue then I need to find someone who does And sub that out. Charging a diagnostic fee lets me determine what needs to be done Even if that is a referral to a specialist.

 

[britechguy]

This happened to me just a few days ago. I charged a client $550 to back up her data, reinstall Windows, upgrade her to an SSD, and replace the power button board on the computer. There was only ONE power button board available on the entire internet. HP didn't stock the part. It arrived and it literally fell apart in my hand. By that time I had already done everything else on the computer and had put at least 2 hours into it. Obviously I couldn't send it out the door without any way for the client to turn it on (I would jump the pins with my metal pry tool in order to turn it on).

What I ended up doing is charging her my minimum hourly rate for the 2 hours and selling her something else. I didn't just bite the 2 hours. It's not my fault the part is no longer available. It's a 6-7 year old computer. HP isn't going to stock the part anymore.

That you even agreed to do such a thing on a 6 to 7 year old machine to begin with is outrageous unless the client really, really pressed for same after you told them that a new machine was far more economically feasible, and a better option.

$550, my God, your clients must be lunatics if they pay that much for a backup, SSD upgrade, and windows reinstall. Even at $100 per hour, those three tasks should not even come close to $550.

 

[britechguy]

Charging a diagnostic fee lets me determine what needs to be done Even if that is a referral to a specialist.

I'm not arguing against charging a diagnostic fee, as I do it sometimes, but who is your market?

You all know that mine, and that of @Diggs, is primarily residential. You can't go the "referral to a specialist" route in that market, nor even for the very small business (as in mom and pop, 10 employees or fewer) market. The tipping point between what that referral would cost and what new equipment would cost is very easy to hit.

I honestly can't recall the last time when I did suggest that specialist intervention was needed that the client either followed-up independently or asked me to follow-up and keep going. That's very different to what happens in the business market, where the value of both the hardware, software, and data is often much higher.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I'm not arguing against charging a diagnostic fee, as I do it sometimes, but who is your market?

You all know that mine, and that of @Diggs, is primarily residential. You can't go the "referral to a specialist" route in that market, nor even for the very small business (as in mom and pop, 10 employees or fewer) market. The tipping point between what that referral would cost and what new equipment would cost is very easy to hit.

I honestly can't recall the last time when I did suggest that specialist intervention was needed that the client either followed-up independently or asked me to follow-up and keep going. That's very different to what happens in the business market, where the value of both the hardware, software, and data is often much higher.

I service small businesses. No residential. I can ALWAYS fix a hardware problem but sometimes the cost of the parts exceeds the value of the PC. That’s not my fault and I will charge you to inform you of that via the diagnostic fee. Software issues are more complicated. Most residential users don’t have anything special and usually you can nuke and pave as a last resort to fix the issues. Many businesses have LOB software, often industry specific. That usually requires opening a ticket with that vendor. The end user has called me in either because they don't realize that the real problem is with the LOB app or they no longer have a support contract with the vendor and they hope i can magically fix their issues. Either way I get paid for my time. Only if I break something is the charge going to be free.

 

[britechguy]

I can ALWAYS fix a hardware problem but sometimes the cost of the parts exceeds the value of the PC. That’s not my fault and I will charge you to inform you of that via the diagnostic fee.

Well, I can't, but if I have no idea of what may be causing an issue I, too, charge a diagnostic fee. But it's a flat fee, in my case $75, because I should be able to figure out what's wrong, or bail, within an hour.

But there are many times, and I'll use my ongoing Dell G15 client as a perfect example, where I did not and would not ever charge a diagnostic fee. I looked at the machine, the screen was cracked, it did exactly what laptops do when screens are cracked. If someone tells me that their optical drive is no longer working at all, and that's confirmed by me when I see the computer, I don't charge a diagnostic fee.

I charge one when there is absolutely no way of knowing what's actually wrong, and the outcome from finding out could be the client declining to proceed. But when the issue is as plain as the nose on my face, and there's almost zero probability of any sort of complication or surprise [barring a bad part], I don't.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Well, I can't, but if I have no idea of what may be causing an issue I, too, charge a diagnostic fee. But it's a flat fee, in my case $75, because I should be able to figure out what's wrong, or bail, within an hour.

But there are many times, and I'll use my ongoing Dell G15 client as a perfect example, where I did not and would not ever charge a diagnostic fee. I looked at the machine, the screen was cracked, it did exactly what laptops do when screens are cracked. If someone tells me that their optical drive is no longer working at all, and that's confirmed by me when I see the computer, I don't charge a diagnostic fee.

I charge one when there is absolutely no way of knowing what's actually wrong, and the outcome from finding out could be the client declining to proceed. But when the issue is as plain as the nose on my face, and there's almost zero probability of any sort of complication or surprise [barring a bad part], I don't.

Except that it not always obvious. Often you open the bezel and find other broken plastics that were only held together by the pressure of the attached parts and they fall away once you take out the screen. Now it is not just the screen but the whole screen Assembly that needs to be replaced. I also do a full checkout of the system to make sure that things like the HDD isn’t also failing. I’ve been burned with the “it was working until you touched it” clients who try and blame you for other unrelated issues.

 

[britechguy]

I’ve been burned with the “it was working until you touched it” clients who try and blame you for other unrelated issues.

And a diagnostic fee doesn't get rid of this issue. I always tell clients that the possibility exists of the uncovering of other issues. Depending on the thing I'm about to fix, I will even go so far as to say that this is somewhat likely (or, conversely, unlikely).

A diagnostic fee is not going to get rid of customers who want to play the "it worked until you touched it" game when it didn't. Luckily, in all my years, I have not had one of those. Part of this is because over 90% of my services are provided not only on site, but with the client watching if they desire (I have no problem with that and, in fact, often encourage it when it's Windows or software that's the root issue).

Sadly, the dishonest will always be with us, and sometimes we do get burned by them. Those that are willing to create convenient fictions, for them, aren't going to be deterred from doing so.

 

[Markverhyden]

We offer no fix no fee.
Had a customer bring in a mac that has a problem connecting to Ancestry from family tree software, she brought in with her a print out of the chat log with the agent she had already spoken to at makiev.
We followed all instructions in the log and also spent some time on their site trying various other options.

This morning with all options exhausted we started an online chat with makiev only to be told that its an issue their end that they have identified and we need to wait for a fix to be implemented.


Would you charge the customer? we technically haven't fixed the problem but we have spent considerable time on this issue.

I'd charge them. You found out where the problem was even though the customer had spoken to them. But I'd also tell them they can bring it n/c on that same issue. Tell them how to check in with the vendor to see if the solution has been implemented. If the vendor claims it's been implemented and still doesn't work bring it back.

 

[Philippe]

Diagnostic fee all the way. Finding the issue is a real job!
Charging residential a diagnostic fee each time I find the issue & can't fix it, whatever the reason.

In this particular case "We offer no fix no fee"... Sounds like a contract to me. Don't charge anything...

 

[britechguy]

Well, in this circumstance I'd explain the situation that I've uncovered to the client, and not present them with a bill. Then, if they don't take you up on it, and really don't want to "not pay you," present a bill for the time used.

I have had a couple of occasions where a client would not allow me (it offended their sense of fair play) to do my "no fix, no fee" approach. If someone insists on paying me after I've given the clear option to not do so, I will not refuse payment. Everyone knows exactly what the circumstances are then, and is getting to choose a course of action that suits them.

This is the middle ground.

 

[Blues]

The problem I have seen, though rare, is where a diagnosis has been provided and then they go dark and on one or two occasions I discovered it was fixed elsewhere and oddly enough for a higher cost too usually this is one newer equipment and when they take it back to where they bought it. I will say the fact that the exceptions have been usually to the customers disadvantage getting charged more and usually having to "fix" things that weren't broken in the first place does provide some satisfaction. I though do entirely remote work so I always charge a call out fee to cover travel expense at a minimum and which is one reason I really haven't worked in this capacity for little over a year. Tech work like this is not my primary work and have been working in an IT liaison position for an office for the last 5 years after leaving the IT department of another company where I worked for almost 10yrs. I have always, until covid, maintained a fair level of outside gig jobs too but since covid I have had little 2 jobs excluding friends and family jobs. I have slowly started to gear myself up to get back into it but many other things have been going on to keep that on the back burner and will continue my method which is only done as such because I don't have a shop and if I am traveling to you there will be a charge for that.