No Certifications

[Poetik92]

Hey guys,

I've got a Potential Client who could be my largest contract yet. I'm looking at providing computer monitoring and maintenance for all their machines as well as maintaining their network and 1 Server. Currently the choice is between myself and one other unnamed business in the area. Both of our proposals/contracts will go before the board in two weeks. Apparently my competition has included his certifications in his proposal and it was requested that I do the same. Only thing is, I don't have any. I'm currently looking into getting my A+ next time the certification class is offered in my area but I don't have it yet.

My question here is for those of you who also don't have certs or have been in a similar situation. Is there a more professional way (other than saying NO CERTIFICATIONS) to say this? They will be doing a side by side comparison of the offers.

Also if anyone with experience wants to read over my final contract, I wouldn't mind pming it as soon as I'm finished typing it up. I'll be sending this to them on Wednesday.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

"Self Taught to exceed certifications"....

Provide references.
Provide experience

Have a conversation with them about your actual experience. Decades of working with people that actually had lots of certs has shown me certs don't necessarily mean much at all.

 

[Poetik92]

"Self Taught to exceed certifications"....

Provide references.
Provide experience

Have a conversation with them about your actual experience. Decades of working with people that actually had lots of certs has shown me certs don't necessarily mean much at all.

This is Precisely what I was looking for, I and many others know that the certs don't necessarily mean much but its difficult explaining that to a client. Many of my clients don't ask and those who do dont care. Thanks alot.

 

[Markverhyden]

As we all know having a cert means someone answered the questions on a test correctly. Just like passing the bar or anything else.

What type of entity is this? The unfortunate reality is some, including public ones, may actually have those requirements spelled out in their by-laws, articles of incorporation, bidding specifications, etc, etc. I did work for the Defense Contract Audit Agency years ago as a contractor through AT&T. For my job I had to have an A+ - period. Fortunately I already had one but I still could have been brought on as long as that cert path was being pursued. Other positions required Network+ and Security+.

The only available option is to, as @YeOldeStonecat said, is put forth the argument that your self-taught skills and experience easily surpass test taking skills. That is done using references. Also if you have other educational achievements do include them to show that you understand the need to further your learning.

 

[Poetik92]

It's a nearby church, I believe they have 3 churches in our area and if brought on My service could expand to the other two as well.

 

[Digital Micro]

It's a nearby church, I believe they have 3 churches in our area and if brought on My service could expand to the other two as well.

Gotta love churches. There's slways a committee of people who have no clue about something deciding the requirements for hiring a company for a service.

 

[Markverhyden]

Gotta love churches. There's slways a committee of people who have no clue about something deciding the requirements for hiring a company for a service.

LOL!!!! Yeah, doubtful they came up with that on their own. Could have been two possibilities. One is the church is part of a larger group, such as the Baptist Synod. And they are using canned paperwork provided by the Synod. If it's all by itself then it's probably the directors. They will always include a lawyer. They will almost always be specifying certs because, surprise surprise!!, lawyers have their own "certs" to keep their little "club" more exclusive.

While you should never try to hide the fact you have no cert you should focus on your service and it's quality. Things like cost effectiveness, data protection, etc, etc.

 

[GTP]

Business's require certifications to appease insurance companies who can get a bit weird about "non certified" work being done.
If a "claim" arises and it was discovered that "non certified" work was done it could affect the claim.

 

[MikeLierman]

"Self Taught to exceed certifications"....

Provide references.
Provide experience

Have a conversation with them about your actual experience. Decades of working with people that actually had lots of certs has shown me certs don't necessarily mean much at all.

Exactly. I have two techs that are A+, Net+, and Sec+. Certs only show so much... I've found that even with those certifications i had to start from the beginning of their internship and education as if they didn't have it. One of them retained more of what they learned in their cert classes, and made his training and learning at my shop easier. The other forgot most of it. Hands on education is what matters the most.

If you work up to high certs, it can look more impressive. Such as CCENT then CCNA.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Mercenary Roadie]

It really depends on the certifications. TIA certs are worthless in my opinion. The other certs out that require years of knowledge are well worth the time and cost to get them.

The A+ cert is given to high schoolers nowadays. That shows how much it's worth.

Just my opinions

 

[cmonova]

Here lies the problem with justifying the reasons for not having the certifications they are asking for.

Maybe they put together a committee that will review the proposals and that committee decided the pre-requirements in advance. Now if they stick to their guns and say
they want to see “certifications” and you send in something with none then they can just set your proposals aside and not even look at it. I have seen them do it for companies that submitted their proposals in 5-ring binders when they stated they wanted them in 3-ring binders. You might think it’s foolish but I personally like it because it shows they set standards they want met from day one and if you can’t meet them then you are gone.

So with that said there are a few ways around it.

1. Get the certs done yourself.
2. Hire someone that has the certs.
3. Either 1099 a few people or do a teaming agreement with another company that
has the certs (yes this is ok to do)…

Personally I would do option 3 due to the ease of it and the meeting of the requirements.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'm certainly not going to discourage anyone from going out and getting certs, but for the over 20 years I"ve been doing what I do, I can count the amount of times I've been asked for my "certs" for a proposal...on 1 hand. And I'm pretty such I can skip counting a few fingers on that one hand too. I seriously mean like...maybe 2 times. In over 20 years.

And I'm looooong overdue to re-cert on things. I did my A+ back when they were teaching on Socket1 processors and slot 1 PII's had been out for a while. (classic example of why certs and courses in IT are kind-a silly, what they teach often came and already went!. We're in a super fast paced industry). The following month after taking the Network+ class I stopped doing certs. Matter of fact, technically I didn't complete the Network+ class. I did the class, much like A+...I could have taught the class better than the teacher we had, but during the day of the exam I was walking into class and a client kept calling my cell phone...I finally picked up, they had a server emergency so I had to rush out to the client. Never went to take that N+ test. That was back in the days of PII motherboards, where ISA NICs were still around. And I think the very first broadband routers were hitting shelves...the days of the Linksys BEFSR41 and the Netgear RT312 (when Netgear was still a good brand under BayNetworks)

We have schools for clients, offices of local towns/municipalities for clients, healthcare, foundations, defense industry, etc etc etc. Around 200 active business clients and even more occasional clients. We've earned our clients mostly through referrals and word of mouth and old school ways of getting clients (networking like BNI).

What I've done for "certs" since the A+ class, where I get a sheet of paper to hang on the wall like a diploma...really not much. Due to time invested in forums years ago doing articles and helping people...Microsoft gave me MVP awards several years in a row. I've got a Datto cert. Everything else, "self taught". In a few months, going for a Ubiquiti cert....but I'm doing that for the knowledge of doing outdoor networks, not the sheet of paper.

Again, I'm not discouraging people from getting certs. Do yourself a favor, learn the course, learn the material. I've worked with too many "paper certs"...a nickname earned by people that just cram for tests at brain dumps, get the sheet of paper..and try to brag about it. If you work side by side with them "in the trenches"...it's pretty amusing to see them stumble and have zero real world knowledge.

But I'm an old dinosaur that's towards the end of a pretty successful career in SMB consulting...that doesn't have a wall full of certs. And honestly..that has not hurt me. I'll repeat..the amount of times I've been asked to provide certs...I can count that about half or less of 1 hand.

 

[cmonova]

YeOldStonecat....agree that certs are paper. I also get the whole "maybe 2 times in over 20 years"....
But, maybe this is not the case for the poster..Maybe his area is different and that is going to be the norm. I know in the D.C.
area I have to submit proposals with certs and crazy other things and always have.

To me it's not worth the small bit of effort to pull this off to just ignore it and hope it never happens again. If you are going to be in business and there is that chance that it might be a requirement then might as well add it to your bag of tricks for the future.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Which is why I stated, a couple of of times, I'm not discouraging it.
I'm just noting that they aren't a guarantee of success, and there were a few hints above of "you'll never be successful without them" which I'll stand up, grab a loudspeaker..and proclaim "B.S." to.

 

[PCskies]

A lot of great comments here from both sides. I remember back in the day when I worked in a corporate IT department we all used to joke that MCSE stood for Must Consult Someone Experienced. We had MCSE guys in the department but they would always come to us guys with lesser certs or no certs and ask for help when they couldn't figure out an issue. I was in business over 10 years before a client requested certifications from us and that was an existing client that was going through accreditation renewal and the state agency was the one asking. We have never had a potential client ask for them upfront with a quote or proposal. Obviously if your competition is including them in a proposal that will provoke them to ask. It looks like you have received some great advice from everyone on how to handle this situation. I would be glad to review your final contract if needed.

 

[trevm999]

I'm someone who has been on the certification train for a while now, but I have no delusions on their usefulness. They have advanced my learning more than they have advanced my career. They're a nice way to pat yourself on the back, and I hang them in my office just to remind my employer I can't be replaced with just anyone off the street. They take time and money. Even if you already know the content of A+ (and with any test) there is still a learning curve of how they ask the questions, and if you're not a good test taker, it could be extra hard for you.

On a resume, certifications by themselves looks suspicious, but certifications + experience looks good, but the projects you list are more impressive than the certifications, and tells more about you. I would suggest your proposal would be the same. Instead of certifications, list some of the projects you have worked on, giving a bit of detail that looks good and might interest them, and then provide a reference for the project.

 

[onside]

Have never been asked for certificates. Most business owners respect that experience usually wins over certificates. I hope your church customer has the same business outlook. As others have suggested, emphasize the benefits from your experience of past projects. God luck!!

 

[Paul Rodgers]

Just quote Tommy Boy on guarantees and replace the word guarantee with certification.

 

[Mainstay]

We just faced a similar situation in a competitive RFP.

Here is how I answered it:

2.1 Solutions Team

[Company name] represents and warrants that all personnel utilized in providing service and support pursuant to a Managed Services Agreement (MSA) with [client] will be competent and qualified and that all services will be provided in a professional and timely manner consistent with accepted industry standards and practices.​

And then we introduced our team members and their experience.

We got the contract and the whole issues of certs dropped away.

 

[Pixelated Tech]

I'm going to hit the repeat button here. I hold a handful of certs and a Degree in CS. As many have stated, I have never once been asked for my certs or education. I'm asked for proof of insurance if anything. The 15 years I have in corporate IT far out weigh any certification on an "equivalent" level.

I'm just noting that they aren't a guarantee of success, and there were a few hints above of "you'll never be successful without them" which I'll stand up, grab a loudspeaker..and proclaim "B.S." to.

This is the blunt truth.
The advice in this thread is exceptional. Best of luck in acquiring the deal.