Need Advice on Bidding an Infrastructure Wiring Job

Dragnix122507

Member
Reaction score
0
Location
Napa, CA
Hello everyone, and thank you for taking the time to read my post.

We've actually done a number of wiring jobs in the past, but have just never really gotten the hang of bidding them properly. I have no issue bidding say a server replacement, computer replacement or that sort of thing but I've always had issues with wiring and I'm hoping someone could offer some input as to how we should handle this.

Anyway, here is the situation.

We're wiring a building that is going to be used as a tasting room/cafe. At the moment, there is no drywall on, the framers have in fact just finished. Electrical and plumbing have yet to go in. We have a location we're going to have the main network closet and an idea of how many drops we need to do. We've elected to go CAT6 for forward thinking purposes and we're running two cables for each one drop just in case there's any problems after the walls go on. There will be an amount of drilling through framing to run cables involved, as well as over a drop ceiling about thirty feet up to the two corners of the building for PoE Cameras and WAPs (I've elected to use Ubiquitee, for what it's worth). These will be wired back to a manageable switch that has PoE. At the moment, we're just running cabling, terminating the patch panel and keystone jacks.

We're going to be running fifty-two drops total and that includes some room for expansion, since only about twenty-six will be in use.

I've sourced a 96-port patch panel, j-hooks (for wires hanging from the ceiling), one-gang boxes and face plates with keystone jacks and approximately 4000 ft of CAT 6 plenum cable.

The extent of this job includes running the wiring, terminating the patch panel and keystone jacks as well as mounting the one-gang boxes on wall studs. About 50% of the wiring will be drilling through studs at the ground level and running the cables through those, 30% drilling through studs at the second floor (loft, really as it's not a full second floor) and running the cables through those and then 20% running across a ceiling with 4-6 ft of crawlspace to two corners of the building and dropping down cables to power the PoE devices.

At this time, we're not putting in the computer equipment, server, telecom equipment or two managed switches. We're just terminating the keystone jacks, patch panel and running wires.

The building is about 60 ft wide, 40 ft deep and 30 ft high.

Any input on how to bid this job properly or any advice you may have to offer would be greatly appreciated. I have to submit a quote to the General Contractor and Owners by Monday. If I'm missing any information, let me know, I'll be monitoring this thread today all day.

Thanks!
 
Are you a licensed and bonded low-voltage systems contractor? Asking how to quote suggests that you don't do this kind of work often, so I doubt you've spent the $$ to do so, and while I'm not in CA, they seem to be real sticklers about that kind of thing.
 
here's how we would quote it:

$180/run plus $50 for each additional cable (so if it's a two cable run, then it's $230).

so we'd be at about $6,000 for the wiring, and then another $350 for the rack and patch panel. Plus any needed building permits, and a $300 lift fee (30' ceilings).

so about $7000 to cover any incidentals. should be a 1 day install with 2 techs -- netting about $4,000 in profit. We would be using BerkTec cable, and all runs are tested, but no written certification provided -- all cabling has a 5year warranty (doesn't cover physical damage).
 
oh and like another poster said, you need to be licensed, bonded, and have the right permits for LV in CA ---- one state I won't do work in as of yet.... PITA!
 
here's how we would quote it:

$180/run plus $50 for each additional cable (so if it's a two cable run, then it's $230).

so we'd be at about $6,000 for the wiring, and then another $350 for the rack and patch panel. Plus any needed building permits, and a $300 lift fee (30' ceilings).

so about $7000 to cover any incidentals. should be a 1 day install with 2 techs -- netting about $4,000 in profit. We would be using BerkTec cable, and all runs are tested, but no written certification provided -- all cabling has a 5year warranty (doesn't cover physical damage).

Great minds think alike. ;) Almost the same numbers I used.
 
Don't pay attention to the trolls.

I have run cat 5 cabling in California many times without bond, low volt licensing. Never a problem. You might call and check, it is probably a matter of paying a fee with no test in some cities. Probably not in the county.

Bond is only required when the customer requires it, bond is basically insurance for each job and you take your total bid and add to that amount the cost of the bond premium when required on a case by case bases so don't let that bs prevent you from going after work. I think a lot of guys like to sound like they are some big **** pros or something. Total BS IMO 99% of the time.

We bid $175 per drop of up to 150' cable per run/drop includes the wall outlet termination and on the other end punched down into a panel. I wouldn't use shielded or plenum unless required by code and you can find that with a phone call. I think I would add only 25% more to run 2 lines for every one if the client also paid for the cable, plates, jacks and drop down panel.

So I am thinking about $7-9k on this job. Plus if they wanted a patch panel mounted on a rack then they pay for the rack as well.

Good Luck. I hope you get the job.
 
Last edited:
There are several posters in this thread. To whom are you referring? Also, good recommendation on calling to check. You can probably count on the IBEW doing that. Then come the fines. This is why I hate running cable in St Louis.

Those whoa contributions were negative not adding value to the ops request. Not anyone who actually tried to help or added value to the ops proposition.
 
There are several posters in this thread. To whom are you referring? Also, good recommendation on calling to check. You can probably count on the IBEW doing that. Then come the fines. This is why I hate running cable in St Louis.

yes, most licenses in LV are about money not skills so long as you pay off the city hall you are ok. Luckily there are many cities and counties that really care less about LV.

also any job large enough to require a bond is expects to pay a professional fee and bond premiums included along with 26' man lift rentals and the like.
 
before you go throwing "troll" around...

I wasn't trying to troll. I specifically have a "no drill" policy in place because I've seen other shops get in enough financial trouble over this sort of thing where it sinks them. At the very least, I added what I thought was a valuable concern.

Maybe I have a sterotype of CA regulations as being overburdensome. But if it is something I need to be concerned about from a licensing, insurance, and training perspective here in MN, I'm pretty sure it is at least a passing concern in CA.

While I don't do that kind of work, I thought it was worth mentioning why. No troll intended, despite my inability to throw caution to the wind and spit out a dollar amount.
 
ere is a difference between getting find AnD a County requiring you to pull permits.
there are two large cities near us that for any cabling jobs over $500 need to pull permits and pay ten percent of the job to the county. granted most people don't do it and most people haven't been fined doesn't mean it's legal...
another county still uses the electrical codes from the 30's and requires a master electrician to sign off on all lv.

My mentioning of the rules were simply because I hate following up after other companies who don't follow the rules and or who don't cable by bicsi levels.

it's obviously up to you if you want To check and see if there are any rules to follow

believe me I am no fan of rules and regulations and government intervention however we all need to operate legally in according to the rules
 
Not really. File this under urban myth.

You mean operate legally in caccording to the rule like Wall-street, B of A, BP petroleum......

In the scheme of things not pulling a license for low voltage cables is not even as bad as throwing a bubble gum wrapper on the street.



yes and no..... at least around here there are often reasons requiring permits to be pulled..... for instance it's against code to leave old wiring in the ceilings (yet many people do), pulling the permit guarantees the site won't get slapped with a fine when they get a building inspection especially in new construction.

Heck I could run all my vehicles without registration, and not have a biz license, or not care about being licensed to operate in the counties I operate in.... but I pride myself in running an above boards legitimate company, and in my opinion part of that is adhering to all the needed rules and regulations.

If you really don't want to check into it, or pull the permits at least put in your contract that the site is responsible for any needed permits and inspections.

I see no reason to not operate legally whenever possible.
Now I'm not worried about pulling a permit to run a quick AP install, but if you're putting in 5,000ft of catx cable......

For instance we did a run of sites where we put in over 50,000ft per store.... it was the sites responsibility to pull permits, and we guaranteed all our cabling to pass local inspections -- and it did.

I just see no reason to not follow the rules
 
In California, you must be a STATE licensed contractor if the amount is greater than $500.00. C-7 is low voltage, C-10 is electrical which covers low voltage as well. Alarm is a separate classification.

If I hired you, and you are not a licensed contractor, I am under no legal obligation to pay you, and you have no legal ground to sue.

There is NO city or county license. You may or may not need to pull a construction permit, I've never had to.

I would specify that the electrician will install the boxes and mud rings, and pipe 3/4" conduit to "accessible ceiling space". This is normal for commercial construction.
 
In California, you must be a STATE licensed contractor if the amount is greater than $500.00. C-7 is low voltage, C-10 is electrical which covers low voltage as well. Alarm is a separate classification.

If I hired you, and you are not a licensed contractor, I am under no legal obligation to pay you, and you have no legal ground to sue.

There is NO city or county license. You may or may not need to pull a construction permit, I've never had to.

I would specify that the electrician will install the boxes and mud rings, and pipe 3/4" conduit to "accessible ceiling space". This is normal for commercial construction.
and this makes total sense.... but Tony doesn't seem to think abiding by laws is necessarily....
 
and this makes total sense.... but Tony doesn't seem to think abiding by laws is necessarily....

I don't want to infer that there is some hypocrisy here but????

I suppose you never drive 3 or 5 miles an hour over the speed limit? Spit on the street? Roll slowly through a stop sign on a isolated country road? Let a piece of paper/trash leave your pickup bed or window while driving down the road? Or filed your taxes after April 15th? own a pet not registered with the city health? Late to pay sales tax? Kept your kids home from school one day when they were not sick? Left a pet in the car when they went in to Quick Trip for a soda? Got your car tags renewed a day or two after deadline?

We are talking low voltage cabling here not high mistomeaners and crimes here.

I realize that many technicians have difficulty in seeing things other than black and white, right or wrong but we live in a world with shades of grey or even colors. In ability to recognize this really limits a persons options and perspectives. With luck someday you out grow it.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top