Messy network problem - thoughts?

[TechLady]

Guy called me to add a wireless router to his network so a machine out in a shop across the lot could get internet. Sounded simple enough. Except...when I actually showed up today, there was a lot of interesting twists (isn't there always?). So I need help deciding whether to call another local tech for help or simply back out of this one.

The main building has five or six older computers, all running Windows 7. The majority of them are somewhat near in proximity to a wired router that is crammed into a tiny under-stairs closet. I didn't see what kind because it was really, really hard to get to and they made it sound like there was probably dead animals in there. Inexplicably, several of the computers in this room are connected to said router with consumer-grade switches. No idea why. The lone computer outside this room, that is nearest a window facing the shop they want to point wireless at, has its own switch. An old metal Netgear I believe. I could not for the life of me figure out how they routed the cable to it from the hidden router under the stairs. Cable just appears out of nowhere under the built-in desk and they couldn't tell me if it goes through the ceiling or what.

And now for the best part! The machine out in the shop...that they want to get internet to...they swear up and down and sideways that it's only six years old but it appears to be even older to me. It looks like it's running 2000 (hopefully not ME!). I say "appear" because it has no mouse, only a touchscreen, and I couldn't remember the DOS command for finding that out. Anyway. It's for doing tool and die type machine work--and was custom configured for that purpose. It has no available slots for any kind of card, and only ONE usb port for a possible dongle, which I suspect is probably USB 1.1. BUT IT GETS BETTER. This whole ancient rig is enclosed in a metal coffin to keep the shop crap out of it. I don't think a signal will get in or out of it. It has to stay completely shut or the computer shuts off. They would have to drill a hole through the metal in the top of it for a possible dongle, and as I said, I'm not even sure that would work.

This is a brand-new client, just called yesterday. Thoughts??

 

[red12049]

Guy called me to add a wireless router to his network so a machine out in a shop across the lot could get internet. Sounded simple enough. Except...when I actually showed up today, there was a lot of interesting twists (isn't there always?). So I need help deciding whether to call another local tech for help or simply back out of this one.

The main building has five or six older computers, all running Windows 7. The majority of them are somewhat near in proximity to a wired router that is crammed into a tiny under-stairs closet. I didn't see what kind because it was really, really hard to get to and they made it sound like there was probably dead animals in there. Inexplicably, several of the computers in this room are connected to said router with consumer-grade switches. No idea why. The lone computer outside this room, that is nearest a window facing the shop they want to point wireless at, has its own switch. An old metal Netgear I believe. I could not for the life of me figure out how they routed the cable to it from the hidden router under the stairs. Cable just appears out of nowhere under the built-in desk and they couldn't tell me if it goes through the ceiling or what.

And now for the best part! The machine out in the shop...that they want to get internet to...they swear up and down and sideways that it's only six years old but it appears to be even older to me. It looks like it's running 2000 (hopefully not ME!). I say "appear" because it has no mouse, only a touchscreen, and I couldn't remember the DOS command for finding that out. Anyway. It's for doing tool and die type machine work--and was custom configured for that purpose. It has no available slots for any kind of card, and only ONE usb port for a possible dongle, which I suspect is probably USB 1.1. BUT IT GETS BETTER. This whole ancient rig is enclosed in a metal coffin to keep the shop crap out of it. I don't think a signal will get in or out of it. It has to stay completely shut or the computer shuts off. They would have to drill a hole through the metal in the top of it for a possible dongle, and as I said, I'm not even sure that would work.

This is a brand-new client, just called yesterday. Thoughts??

Is there an ethernet card in the machine? If so, you could use an access point to bridge the network. Wireless from building to building, access point picks up wireless signal, send it to computer via ethernet.

Rick

 

[TechLady]

Yes, it has one, though I don't know if it works. Things are complicated by all the random switches and there's still the problem of getting things in and out of the metal enclosure.

 

[rsarceno]

If your not familiar with DOS and worried about the dead animal near the router, then I would walk away. But if you decided to move on, here one solution.

1) Verify DOS. If PC-DOS walk away (It's just too old). If MS-DOS v5 or higher then continue.

2) Get a USB WIFI that has MS-DOS Driver. Try this http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-NT-WGHU-High-Power-Wardriving-Extension/dp/B003EVO9U4 (make sure it has a ms-dos driver)

3) You will need a USB cable. Connect one to the PC and the other end connected to USB WIFI. Drill a hole just big enough for the USB cable. Seal it with fiber foam. (available at any wiring store). The point here is to make sure the USB WIFI is outside the box.

4) Configure c:\config.sys with a text editor.
DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\xxxxxx.SYS {parameter IRQ , etc) or
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\xxxsx.SYS

Note: remember extended and expanded memory. EMM386.sys and other stuff to load the stuff above 640K

5) Modify c:\packet.ini (This contain SSID, Key pwd, etc)

6) Modify a:\autoexec.bat (to load MS-LAN or Novell, Binding, etc)

Option B
Use the Ethernet card (skip #2 and 3) Instead of USB WIFI get a Amped Wireless SR300 Wi-Fi Range Extender
Drill a hole for a ethernet cable. You still need step 4 and 6. You might be able to skip option5

That's it. Assuming you have a good signal from the router, otherwise upgrade the router to AMPED with external/booster antenna.

I did the step up above using USB about a 2 years ago. My client has custom apps designed for MS-DOS.

AMPED products are excellent for long range.

Good Luck

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

If it's a "shop" out back, or next to the house...on the same property...it probably has power going to it from their circuit, possibly a phone, possibly coax for TV. I'd use a ethernet over powerline bridge, or Home PNA, or a Moca bridge....instead of wireless.

 

[hacknscan]

when using wifi to extend a network to another location I almost always go with a access point and bridge. With machine shops or shops with alot of tranformers powerline will most likely be a waste of time. The phones to the building are usually cat3 so if you can find 2 spare pairs to it you can do 10m ethernet which should be more than enough for a dos machine. or if more speed is needed the home pna over twisted pair works very good, AT&T uverse can send HD TV over a single pair with it with connection rates between 96-128m. hope this helps...

 

[Rob_NNCC]

I don't see the problem. If it already has a wired connection, just configure one of these take the wire out of the switch and plug it in the nanostation. I would be more worried about live animals than dead ones. Here most houses have crawl spaces, many are on the water, so it is not uncommon to find snakes down there in the winter when doing wiring.

EDIT: BTW, old computers running Windows 7? About once a month I will get someone trying to get me to fix a pc running RAMBUS ram, and a few for Windows 98...

 

[cmonova]

You say they are a brand new client. I would handle it this way. I'd explain to them like you said how the machine is "for doing tool and die type machine work--and was custom configured for that purpose."

I'd highly recommend that they get "another" computer if the need is to have internet access in the building vice having them get on the internet with a computer that was "custom configured" for something specific.

I would be concerned with them getting on the internet with this custom machine and then messing around on the internet and it stop working for them.

 

[TechLady]

I would be concerned with them getting on the internet with this custom machine and then messing around on the internet and it stop working for them.

That was exactly my thought. I have no idea why they even want to get internet to this old dinosaur, which was clearly not even set up for that by the company that made it for them. It doesn't even make sense.

IF it had to work I was thinking a powerline connection might be the way to go, since it's on the same lot I think that's a possibility.

But the random switch situation is a real mess. I can ping the 2nd router but that's it, there's so much craziness with all the extra switches I think the whole thing needs to be redone.

I'm thinking my time would be better spent finishing up the residential and website work I'm behind in than fighting with this all week.

P.S. "it is not uncommon to find snakes down there in the winter when doing wiring." Ohhhh, thanks for that lovely visual! Aaaugh!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I missed where you mentioned a computer running DOS....
I saw you mentioned you couldn't remember the DOS command to find out what OS that computer was running in the shop..that you thought it was 2K or ME.

 

[TechLady]

No it's most likely Win2k on it but I know there's a DOS command for finding out the OS exactly, I just couldn't remember it.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Well, you've had most of the heavyweights come out and give great advice. I am currently building my skills for networking so I can only offer what I would choose from the sage advice you've been given.

I would choose Comonova's very practical suggestion. I'll PM you with some other thoughts.

 

[NETWizz]

No it's most likely Win2k on it but I know there's a DOS command for finding out the OS exactly, I just couldn't remember it.

The command is "VER"

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Or just hit Ctrl+Esc so you can see the start menu (thus the OS listed up the side)...assuming desktop is in the background.

WinVer at the Start==>Run field.

Ver at cmd.com

 

[coolnezz]

connecting that custom machine to the internet is just asking for trouble.

 

[compnet]

I'm assuming the internet is for sending programs to the cnc program from an office computer

 

[TechLady]

connecting that custom machine to the internet is just asking for trouble.

Totally. I talked to the son of the owner today and he agreed the whole idea was a bit ridiculous. And you know what the big urgency was? Accessing Google Docs. That's it. I got my stuff out of there and I think the owner will do the sensible thing, a new and separate laptop. And I will let someone else deal with the network mess and dead animals.

Thanks for the advice, all (and DOS tips...I'm very rusty in DOS!).

 

[coolnezz]

I'm assuming the internet is for sending programs to the cnc program from an office computer

i think the custom machine is already networked to the office computer across, they could've just done a shared folder access.

 

[TechLady]

i think the custom machine is already networked to the office computer across, they could've just done a shared folder access.

Um, no. No access to anything (see first post in thread). And it probably ought to stay that way.

 

[coolnezz]

I thought it was connected somewhere when you mentioned the switch and cable for that machine.
You could probably still WiFi it for file sharing w/o Internet. But still kinda risky, could get infected with viruses.

The lone computer outside this room, that is nearest a window facing the shop they want to point wireless at, has its own switch. An old metal Netgear I believe. I could not for the life of me figure out how they routed the cable to it from the hidden router under the stairs. Cable just appears out of nowhere under the built-in desk and they couldn't tell me if it goes through the ceiling or what.

Um, no. No access to anything (see first post in thread). And it probably ought to stay that way.