Looking For Suggestions

[HFultzjr]

Hello all,
I'm in need of suggestions/help for the following project.
They already have a crude set-up of various hardware that is not meeting their needs.
Upfront..........I'm in no way "a networking man", but can muddle my way through most simple jobs.
Hopefully the following crude diagram I made will help.
Wiring is NOT an option.
Verizon DSL is the only option available due to location (already have this and crappy speeds, but it is what it is)
Any and all suggestions welcome. Let me know if I've missed any info
Please keep it as simple as possible........lol
Thanks in advance.

 

[britechguy]

I will ask one thing, even though you've already stated otherwise: Are you absolutely certain that Verizon DSL is actually the only option?

I have been shocked during a recent trip just how widely T-Mobile 5G service has spread across many "the middles of nowhere" during that trip. It also happens to be my mobile carrier, but I am not in any way financially affiliated with T-Mobile. But a number of their plans are cheaper than the low-end Verizon DSL I used for years, and the throughput you can get with 5G is light years faster and there are a lot of 5G phones that can serve quite nicely as hotspots and nothing else if that's necessary. It's also likely possible to get multiple lines, which means multiple hotspots, for less than they may be paying presently.

 

[nlinecomputers]

You can probably use UBNT Nanobeam Loco units one on each building. Not sure what can be used at the lodge as point to point tends to be directional and you might need to set up 3 in a triangular setup to cover 360 degrees. Think cell tower.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Attn @YeOldeStonecat

 

[Sky-Knight]

I was thinking nanobeams to get to the two farther outbuildings. But given the nature of the others... exterior and directional WAPs might be able to provide coverage from the main building.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Yeah nice little "CAN" (Campus Area Network) easily done with a PtMP (point to multi point) central unit like a Rocket 5 Prism with a 360 antenna on the main lodge, and NanoStation 5 Loco's or even NanoBeam 5 Gen2's on each of the remote buildings.

Should be able to create a 300 meg link to each building....so it's like one big network.

 

[Markverhyden]

What are the speed test results from the DSL, at the DSL modem itself? I'd make sure and draw a bandwidth budget. As in what's going to use how much and where, including defining WAN and LAN traffic. As mentioned there's plenty of options for setting up a wireless LAN between buildings. The pinch point here is WAN traffic. I mention this as EU's often have a misguided impression that upgrading their LAN will improve WAN bound traffic. And I second @britechguy's comment about looking at 4G, 5G, LTE.

 

[HFultzjr]

I will ask one thing, even though you've already stated otherwise: Are you absolutely certain that Verizon DSL is actually the only option?

I have been shocked during a recent trip just how widely T-Mobile 5G service has spread across many "the middles of nowhere" during that trip. It also happens to be my mobile carrier, but I am not in any way financially affiliated with T-Mobile. But a number of their plans are cheaper than the low-end Verizon DSL I used for years, and the throughput you can get with 5G is light years faster and there are a lot of 5G phones that can serve quite nicely as hotspots and nothing else if that's necessary. It's also likely possible to get multiple lines, which means multiple hotspots, for less than they may be paying presently.

The only other option is satellite......and we all know how that currently is. Members with T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon and others currently get NO signal on their phones. They are in a "valley" and tower locations results that signals are non-existent. I would love to set up a 5G option. I live very close to this location and 5G is fine for me. Just not their location. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[HFultzjr]

You can probably use UBNT Nanobeam Loco units one on each building. Not sure what can be used at the lodge as point to point tends to be directional and you might need to set up 3 in a triangular setup to cover 360 degrees. Think cell tower.

That is along the line of my thinking 3 triangular set-up directional. Just checking to see what options (equipment) would be needed. Thank you.

 

[HFultzjr]

Yeah nice little "CAN" (Campus Area Network) easily done with a PtMP (point to multi point) central unit like a Rocket 5 Prism with a 360 antenna on the main lodge, and NanoStation 5 Loco's or even NanoBeam 5 Gen2's on each of the remote buildings.

Should be able to create a 300 meg link to each building....so it's like one big network.

Nice. Thank you. Do you have any specific model numbers in mind. I'm a rookie........lol

 

[HFultzjr]

DSL is pretty bad....3 meg down and .75 meg up. They are mostly concerned with cameras (security) and one POS for various functions. No heavy lifting needed. I think I may try to get a cell signal from the top of the lodge. Is their some kind of "cell antenna...booster" that could be mounted up on the roof?

 

[Markverhyden]

All cellular providers have boosters that will pickup a weak signal, boost and re-transmit. Personally I've setup several for VZ, their's uses a Samsung device. One was even in downtown Boston. But they're not cheap. And you have to have GPS for e911 and an internet connection for it. But not all boosters are equal so do your homework.

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POS is should be low bandwidth. Cameras not so much. If all they're looking for is LAN access to the cameras then they're fine. It's WAN access that'll be bad.

 

[britechguy]

I live very close to this location and 5G is fine for me. Just not their location.

Oh, believe me, I understand. I live in Staunton, VA, in the Shenandoah Valley and we're surrounded by hills and mountains. While cell service here overall is darned good, all it takes is one strategically placed hill to create a complete dead zone, even if it's a tiny one (and some aren't).

The only reason I brought it up is that, these days, things that were true one week with cell service at a given location may very well not be the next. But if it's not there now, it's not there now, which is when you need it.

 

[Sky-Knight]

The only other option is satellite......and we all know how that currently is. Members with T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon and others currently get NO signal on their phones. They are in a "valley" and tower locations results that signals are non-existent. I would love to set up a 5G option. I live very close to this location and 5G is fine for me. Just not their location. Thank you for the suggestion.

WeBoost?

All you need is string to a space beyond the interference, and a rebroadcast enough to catch the router you're installing. Not cheap, but it does work. I have their 4G unit meant for Semi trucks... I use it while camping. That thing can reach out 50miles, and while I often find myself in dead spaces, I also can usually get around them by hauling the antenna up into a tree.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

3 meg old school gen1 DSL...they must be past 12,000 feet from the CO.

Hmmm..there's always StarLink in the near future....

You can test 4g/5g by using your phone. For WAN cellular bridges for firewalls we use Protectlis little guys.....they work great, have those antenna for a bit more juice, and you can log into them...and disable their default "NAT/router mode"....so they're a pure bridge that passes the public IP.

4G LTE - Protectli

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[Markverhyden]

3 meg old school gen1 DSL...they must be past 12,000 feet from the CO.

Hmmm..there's always StarLink in the near future....

You can test 4g/5g by using your phone. For WAN cellular bridges for firewalls we use Protectlis little guys.....they work great, have those antenna for a bit more juice, and you can log into them...and disable their default "NAT/router mode"....so they're a pure bridge that passes the public IP.

4G LTE - Protectli

Discover Protectli LTE solutions: Stay connected at all times with LTE connectivity for the Protectli Vault.

protectli.com

And one can also use better antenna's than the ones that come with those types of devices. I've installed several Wilson antenna's with signal boosters and it's made a difference in many cases. Recently bought a kit for my Netgear 340u Beam for use in my car. Just haven't gotten around to setting it up.

Wilson Electronics 4G Omni Plus Antenna 75 Ohm - 304423

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[HFultzjr]

3 meg old school gen1 DSL...they must be past 12,000 feet from the CO.

Hmmm..there's always StarLink in the near future....

You can test 4g/5g by using your phone. For WAN cellular bridges for firewalls we use Protectlis little guys.....they work great, have those antenna for a bit more juice, and you can log into them...and disable their default "NAT/router mode"....so they're a pure bridge that passes the public IP.

4G LTE - Protectli

Discover Protectli LTE solutions: Stay connected at all times with LTE connectivity for the Protectli Vault.

protectli.com

Yes,
Starlink sounds very promising!
Thanks for the input

 

[HFultzjr]

Thanks for the leads everyone.
Now I need to get someone to climb on top the metal roof and see if there is a signal.
I don't climb roofs anymore..............lol

So far:
"Yeah nice little "CAN" (Campus Area Network) easily done with a PtMP (point to multi point) central unit like a Rocket 5 Prism with a 360 antenna on the main lodge, and NanoStation 5 Loco's or even NanoBeam 5 Gen2's on each of the remote buildings", as per YeOldeStonecat looks promising for the cameras. Along with a cell booster that might do the trick until starlink arrives.

 

[HFultzjr]

I want to thank everyone for there input. This is what we want to do short term for a function. They do not want 5G ????? (customer's request).
Here is a new plan with some additional info.


Area we need to focus on at this time is on the right side (oval area). This is due to an upcoming event where they will need Point of Sale in the Kitchen. The 2 red areas are of the current concern. By trimming a few branches I can get a clear line of sight from Main Lodge to Kitchen. I'm thinking a 2.4GHz connection from Point C to Point D. Then using an WiFi access point at E. Area in oval is what they want me to concentrate on at this time. Other areas are going to be a future project. There DLS slow speed will work for Kitchen POS. Not much bandwith available or needed.
I know this is not the ideal complete solution, but is what the customer is currently looking for.
POE from WIFI Router in Main Lodge to Point C (outside), then receive at Point D. Then connect to a good inside access point located to cover the Kitchen and Patio. I'm looking for suggestions on equipment. I'm leaning toward Ubiquiti. I'm thinking 2.4 vs, 5 because of the narrow clear line of sight. it is about 10 ft wide with some trimming. Here are my thoughts:

Amazon.com: Ubiquiti PBE-M2-400 2-PACK PowerBeam M2 18dBi 2.4GHz airMAX 400mm 20km+ PoE : Electronics

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From the point in Kitchen use an access point (POE) to a more central location for coverage. I was looking at this, but states it's for indoor use. I can located it under a roof, but it will still be subject to wind, rain, etc. Not much, but some storms can blow the rain/snow around. Any suggestions welcomed. The easier the better. Thank you all.

Amazon.com: Ubiquiti Unifi Ap-AC Long Range - Wireless Access Point - 802.11 B/A/G/n/AC (UAP-AC-LR-US),White : Electronics

Amazon.com: Ubiquiti Unifi Ap-AC Long Range - Wireless Access Point - 802.11 B/A/G/n/AC (UAP-AC-LR-US),White : Electronics

www.amazon.com

or this:

Amazon.com: Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC-M-PRO US UniFi AC Mesh Wide-Area Outdoor Dual-Band Access Point: Computers & Accessories

Amazon.com: Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC-M-PRO US UniFi AC Mesh Wide-Area Outdoor Dual-Band Access Point: Computers & Accessories

www.amazon.com

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

re: "They don't want 5G".....you know todays wifi is in the 5 GHz spectrum? The "tin foil hats" that are afraid of "5G" connectivity are referring to the cellular 5G that is coming out, not the 5 gig wifi.

For outdoors, you really want the real "outdoor" APs....so you have the UAP-M...and the UAP-M-Pro
UAP-M is the little inexpensive one with a pair of little rabbit ear antennas. Can handle a light to almost moderate load. The Pro version is the higher priced big rectangular one...can handle a pretty good load. There is also a big expensive model meant for mega-huge loads like stadiums...but we'll leave that out of this one.

As for 900mHz vs 2.4 vs 5 for the point to point airmax radios....and the trees. Short distance....I've seen 5 go through some trees pretty good. Trimming them can do wonders....just have to "punch a hole" through the limbs to give the fresnel zone a path. Also...the type of tree can have an impact. Deciduous trees for the most part have the least obstruction....versus, pine/conifer type trees...which block more. Deciduous trees can slow things down after heavy rain...as the leaves are filled with water more. But if you just trim a few limbs down to clear a line of site path through, about a 25' hole....or at least clear as much as you can, it can do wonders. I've had bucket trucks do a lot of tree trimming!

Have an indoor AP on the inside of buildings, and an outdoor AP on the outside. Outdoor APs...stand them off of (away from) walls as best you can, you can get some good mounting brackets to do that. If you mount them right onto walls...performance isn't as good as if they were a foot away from a wall. Also down a bit from overhangs. Ideally, not more than 14' AGL (above ground level). Mount APs too high, and the signal just shoots over peoples who are on the grounds heads. For point to point radios...you can mount as high as you want (higher is better)..they just need to see each other well, and you're not blanketing wifi with them.