Long cable run

['putertutor]

At my day job, we are currently running a set of wireless antennas to get internet from one house to the next. As the crow flies this is <200 feet from one antenna to the other. One of the antennas has developed a terminal cancer at the hands of an overly rambunctious soccer ball. Replacement or a new solution will be necessary.

Over the course of this current configuration's life, there have been periodic connectivity issues, enough that I am considering just trenching a line between houses. That route is closer to 300 feet, near the edge of limit of the standards. What do I need to be aware of if we do this? I know we will be crossing over power at one point, and running next to it for a few feet in another. Should that be a concern for me?

 

[mr m]

Check the town's building codes too see how deep the trench needs to be. You can buy CatX cable for direct burial or use conduit with the cheaper PVC CatX. You can optionally buy surge protectors for each end in case of a lightning strike.

You can run parallel to AC power for short distances but ideally you want to be a foot away. Someone here posted that the military spec is 6". Cross the AC at a right angle if possible. As long as it's not a 3 phase. 480V circuit I wouldn't be too concerned.

328 feet is the by the book max, node to node so that leaves 28' for patch cables at each end if you're horizontal run is 300'. It all comes down to the timing of Ethernet frames. If you go over the 328' limit your network will still run and you'd probably never notice the extra collisions with just a few users.

 

['putertutor]

Check the town's building codes too see how deep the trench needs to be.

Building codes... That's funny! This is the boondocks of NW Montana. Building codes exist, but only to use to prop up the corners of uneven foundations.

At that distance (275-300 feet) would you consider a repeater? I know the standard doesn't call for one, but...?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You'd likely find it more economical to just upgrade those APs...get some Ubiquiti's and setup a point to point, with hardened enclosures and the beefy brackets to protect them. Still an <300 dollar project, quick 'n easy, beat the heck out of dealing with cutting a trench ~300 feet.

 

['putertutor]

The great thing about this job is the labor is free and plentiful, so that's not my biggest concern. Stability is. Like I said, connectivity has been an intermittent issue with this setup in the past. I know you like the ubiquiti line up (I do too) but given the option, with stability as the primary concern, do you still like the wireless ap option? I know in the long run, that option is probably easier to maintain - if for example, something goes south with that cable, that's going to be a more difficult fix than just replacing an ap, clearly.

 

[mr m]

Building codes... That's funny! This is the boondocks of NW Montana. Building codes exist, but only to use to prop up the corners of uneven foundations.

Haha, I was watching a show on Discovery where they wanted to dig to search for ancient wall or something like that. The host asks the land owner about a permit and he just laughed. "This is Texas, if I want to dig a hole on my land I'll just dig a phucking hole!"

No repeater needed if you go that route. It will also pay to pull a second cable as a backup.

I only go the wireless route for convenience or ease of installation like YeOld said. Wired is faster and more secure but harder to install.

 

['putertutor]

Haha, I was watching a show on Discovery where they wanted to dig to search for ancient wall or something like that. The host asks the land owner about a permit and he just laughed. "This is Texas, if I want to dig a hole on my land I'll just dig a phucking hole!"

No repeater needed if you go that route. It will also pay to pull a second cable as a backup.

I only go the wireless route for convenience or ease of installation like YeOld said. Wired is faster and more secure but harder to install.

Yeah, I'm now tossed between the two options. Pros and cons to each. I think if I go the wired option, I'll run some larger conduit with a spare line and probably pre-fish with a nylon p-cord so I can pull something else through if needed later on. If I go the wireless ap route, it'll be faster, but I'm sort of burned on that option based on the intermittent issues I've had with the existing set up.

Dammit! I feel like an adolescent girl trying to pick an outfit for the day. This one makes me look fat, but I just wore this other one two weeks ago!

 

[Dave1320]

If I had the choice I'd always go with a hardline. I like the fact that it's more secure than a wireless signal. I'd run two obviously one as a backup and that wire you said to pre-fish. You're lucky to have that option.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

The great thing about this job is the labor is free and plentiful, so that's not my biggest concern. Stability is. Like I said, connectivity has been an intermittent issue with this setup in the past. I know you like the ubiquiti line up (I do too) but given the option, with stability as the primary concern, do you still like the wireless ap option?

I don't know your location...if you're in climate that's warm 12 months of the year, wet, or you have freezing winters where ground gets below freezing. But unless you go deep, and use outdoor thick grade ethernet, and setup the conduit properly (high in the middle...no sag to accumulate water)...over the long term "home made trench runs" typically fail.

I don't know what equipment you're using now for the point to point wireless...but when you use good quality >business grade equipment..it's quite rock solid. Yes I frequently will state "use copper when you can"...but doing a longer outdoor shallow run like this...versus some Ubiquiti outdoor APs doing a point to point...meh...I'd probably lean to the Ubiquities.

 

[pceinc]

I'd run MM fiber with two media converters at both ends. The supplies for this would cost $600-$700 depending on the price of the conduit.

2x 1000tx media converter - $150
1000' spool of 62.5MM fiber - $230
Field cleaver for terminating fiber - $100
Fiber stripper - $30
10x SC pre polished connectors (extras for learning)
300ft Conduit - ?????

Advantages = Faster link and newly learned skill

Edit: I just realized you can get 6 strange direct burial fiber for about $1.30/ft. Forget the conduit. Less work and you have extra strands for future or failure.

 

[TredCS]

Agree with using fiber for outside run, if affordable. More expensive and harder to terminate but eliminates bad NICs and switch ports after storms. Also solves your distance problem.

 

[pceinc]

Agree with using fiber for outside run, if affordable. More expensive and harder to terminate but eliminates bad NICs and switch ports after storms. Also solves your distance problem.

It's not as difficult as it used to be. The advent of pre-polished connectors makes it pretty easy. If you can terminate an RJ45, you can terminate a Leviton Fastcam connector.

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=39160

Just make sure you match the connector type LC or SC with the Media Converter. I normally use SC.

 

[marley1]

Direct burial cable for that distance.

Fiber is better portion but direct burial cable and a spade shovel

 

[layoric]

They sell wifi antennas that can go for miles, sounds like they just had cheap ones.

 

[pceinc]

Direct burial cable for that distance.

Fiber is better portion but direct burial cable and a spade shovel

You can rent a trencher for $60-$80 for 4 hours.

 

['putertutor]

Well, we've decided to do both. Odd, I know, but they wanted to be ready for any future issues that might arise. We will be putting the new antenna's up asap, to get site up and running, but if anything goes south again, and for other possible uses, we are going to trench the line, throw about a 2" piece of conduit in there, and pre-fish it with some p-cord.

The antennas in use certainly weren't $1,000 units, but they worked well for the most part. The final failure was due to an errant soccer ball, not a whole lot to be done there. The new install will include a bit more physical protection.

I was surprised at all the fiber suggestions - something I hadn't even considered. When the time comes, we may look at that, but my guess is that we'll stick with copper. As far as labor goes, all I can tell you is that we have far more volunteer hands on deck than needed, ready and willing to put a pick and shovel to good use. Probably get it done faster than a ditch-witch any day of the week.

 

[TouchToneTommy]

Use Direct Burial IN conduit - pull a spare, and a string as well.