Liquid Reservoir

[ComputerDave]

I've worked on several gaming rigs, but not anything like this. The guy wants to replace his CPU cooler with another liquid cooler and GPU. I guess I'll remove everything, including the liquid reservoir, and replace it with a "normal" liquid cooler (although I prefer air-cooled). What are your thoughts about the case fans flowing directly into the radiator fans in such close proximity like this? Overkill? I'm probably overthinking it, as I have seen this often with just a single case fan / radiator / single radiator fan, (just a thicker radiator). Any suggestions before I begin?

 

[GTP]

My question is "why?" Why does he want to replace it?
Water/liquid cooling will always outperform air cooling and be a lot quieter doing it.

I had gaming PC's sound like a turbine with so many (unnecessary) fans it was ridiculous. Also the CPU coolers were huge things that weighed a kilo or more! Water/liquid cooling is so much more efficient.

As to the "case fans" it is a bit "overkill" but as long as the case fans are pulling the air (out) in the same direction as the radiator fans are pushing it (which should be out as well) it wont matter if they stay.

Does he also want the GPU to be liquid cooled as well? IMO that would be overkill because there's enough cooling already with the fans at the top pulling air in. You also have the PSU fan pulling air out the bottom.

 

[ComputerDave]

My question is "why?" Why does he want to replace it?
Water/liquid cooling will always outperform air cooling and be a lot quieter doing it.

I had gaming PC's sound like a turbine with so many (unnecessary) fans it was ridiculous. Also the CPU coolers were huge things that weighed a kilo or more! Water/liquid cooling is so much more efficient.

As to the "case fans" it is a bit "overkill" but as long as the case fans are pulling the air (out) in the same direction as the radiator fans are pushing it (which should be out as well) it wont matter if they stay.

Does he also want the GPU to be liquid cooled as well? IMO that would be overkill because there's enough cooling already with the fans at the top pulling air in. You also have the PSU fan pulling air out the bottom.

Thank you for the feedback. He brought it in late this afternoon, and I have yet to really evaluate things, but he tells me that his pump is making noise, and he doesn't like that the tubes have changed color from "clear" to "cloudy." Thankfully, he does not want the GPU liquid to be cooled; yeah, that would be crazy. I appreciate your advice about the fans and figured I was overthinking it.

 

[GTP]

but he tells me that his pump is making noise, and he doesn't like that the tubes have changed color from "clear" to "cloudy."

Is he mixing his own coolant? If so he needs to reevaluate the mixture. Many discussions online about using incorrect mixtures etc.
If the pump is making noise it may be prudent to completely flush the system and add new coolant first.
AFAIK coolant never "wears out" or needs to be replaced.

 

[frase]

This would be me with this job as would take forever.

 

[ComputerDave]

Is he mixing his own coolant? If so he needs to reevaluate the mixture. Many discussions online about using incorrect mixtures etc.
If the pump is making noise it may be prudent to completely flush the system and add new coolant first.
AFAIK coolant never "wears out" or needs to be replaced.

I do not believe he is mixing his own coolant, he did mention that the reservoir has a lower level of liquid in it than when he purchased the machine. I don't think this is the kind of guy to be messing around with his own harware. I do agree with your point, though, and wholeheartedly appreciate your willingness to correspond with me about it.

 

[ComputerDave]

This would be me with this job as would take forever.

View attachment 16170

That was my whole point in making this post because when I first saw this, I thought, "Yikes, I better get some input on this one."

 

[Blues]

Fans on both sides of a radiator is not uncommon it is a push/pull setup where one side pushes the air into the radiator and the other pulls it out to improve the radiators efficiency so all 6 fans would be radiator fans.

Is the customer wanting to replace just the cooling block(s) or the radiator, blocks, tubing/piping, etc? If it is really just the blocks it somewhat simplifies your process other than needing to drain the current loop regardless of what is needed.


I have studied water cooling but the cost:risk:reward balance just doesn't really justify it to me but I also don't see much justification in things like an RTX 4090 and i9 whateverhundredk they are up to now. So I stick to air cooling in my personal rigs but some of the simpler modern coolers for CPUs are tempting where there is no reservoir as they streamline the install process.

 

[ComputerDave]

Fans on both sides of a radiator is not uncommon it is a push/pull setup where one side pushes the air into the radiator and the other pulls it out to improve the radiators efficiency so all 6 fans would be radiator fans.

Somewhere in my little brain, I was thinking that if I replaced the radiator (like the customer is requesting) and those newer fans pulled at a higher cfm, then that would put a strain on the existing case fans right on the other side of the radiator, or visa vera. I'm probably overthinking it. I'd also go with an air-cooled solution, but that's what the client wants.

I greatly appreciate your feedback.

 

[fincoder]

I'd also go with an air-cooled solution, but that's what the client wants.

You don't have to do what the client wants!

The only work I do with water cooling (only see the all-in-one type in my shop) is to re-paste, or test with a spare air cooler, or replace with air cooler when it's shown to be ineffective (common).

Lately I've been installing DeepCool AK400 and AK500 models (e.g. in new builds). They are very effective and quiet, and much cheaper than AIO water coolers.

 

[britechguy]

You don't have to do what the client wants!

And you shouldn't do what the client wants when it goes against your professional opinion, formed from years of experience.

We are hired for our expertise, and if a client rejects that, and it's on something we personally consider important, then the relationship is best terminated, promptly. I have yet to hear anyone happy after they've gone against their better judgment.

 

[frase]

I am not a liquid cooling fan, a decent setup with the correct airflow of fans are silent and do the job just as well. I have a radiator AIO [came with the GFX 3080 card] on the front panel of my PC , a rear fan at the back, and two fans at the top as exhaust pushing all the air out the top.

I could not in the slightest be bothered with liquid cooling, each to their own there are certain people who enjoy it [insert masochism here].
I never take on any request's like this as just takes too much time to sort out the issue, especially if you have not worked on liquid cooling systems before. If you have not, I would suggest building one of your own and use that as an experiment of sorts. Plenty of LC Geeks on YT that are into LC. I would state to your customer that what the pro's & cons of LC vs Air are, for me it is a no brainer of AC with a decent airflow. A friend of mine is into he states that he reached a temp of 10degrees, my reply ok then how long for stable?


Here we go found something -

 

[Porthos]

If you make the slightest mistake and it leaks you will probably be held liable even years down the road.
Spend the extra for non-conductive fluid.

 

[Blues]

Somewhere in my little brain, I was thinking that if I replaced the radiator (like the customer is requesting) and those newer fans pulled at a higher cfm, then that would put a strain on the existing case fans right on the other side of the radiator, or visa vera. I'm probably overthinking it. I'd also go with an air-cooled solution, but that's what the client wants.

I greatly appreciate your feedback.

If the fans on each side have different CFM it might have a negative impact particularly over the long term but I would say the life of the system will still be less than the life of any of the parts that may be negatively impacted and any change to the efficiency of the system is probably minimal. I have never tested with fans of a known difference in CFM as I just put all 1 type fans in most my systems for thier airflow or balance with higher CFM on the flow that has fewer fans.

If I have 2x 140 intake and 2x 140 exhaust + 1x 120 exhaust I might get higher CFM on the intake fans but aim for 1:1 on in and out ratio.

What is the clients request exactly and do you know the full reasoning and story for the request?

 

[fincoder]

I assume @ComputerDave is considering installing an AIO liquid cooling system, not a new custom loop. Attempting a custom loop system as a commercial service would be absolute madness unless it was a specialty with lots of experience.

AIO liquid coolers are easier and safe, but they are not really any more effective than a decent air cooler and they are more expensive. They are also notorious for degraded cooling performance over time due to internal fault or wear. So they're not a good practical solution. Younger gamers (e.g. under 40) seem to think they have far better performance than air cooling, and they feel they are 'cool'. In my opinion they're wrong!

 

[Diggs]

With the advancements of the heat-pipe D-coolers there's nothing to be gained really by water cooling. But there are still quite a few out there and some love the show.

 

[frase]

That is what I was saying it is like people who are interested in hotting/modding up cars. The more bling and RGB the better or simply enthusiasts who enjoy the pain and never stop, self flagellation in essence.

 

[Big Jim]

I haven't worked on a "proper" watercooled setup since the earlys 2000s when I was setting up my own rig.

Recently had a customer approach us with one and as business is slow I couldn't say no.
his build was about 4 years old and the pump had failed so we had to completely drain the system and refill it, but it hadn't been built or designed with a filling loop, as it was 4 years old I decided to do a full system flush as well, so pretty much stripped the entire thing down.
Spilt water a few times and had to mop it up, (inside the case as well)

Definitely confirms to me that as nice as it looks, and as good as the temps are, any kind of system maintenance becomes a hassle, and this was with flexible tubing, god knows how the guys carry on with the hardline stuff.

also the price!!! I priced up a simple system with GPU and CPU blocks, 2 x rads, and a pump obviously, it came to about £800/900.

Back in the old days where air cooling was all 60/80mm fans and hella noisy it kind of made sense, but nowadays with AIO coolers or even decent air coolers and 120mm/140mm fans, temps and noise levels are comparable, overclocking is pretty much dead now as well, you are looking at very minor performance increases for potentially damaging an expensive CPU, again going back to earlier CPUs 50% increase was not uncommon.

 

[britechguy]

again going back to earlier CPUs 50% increase was not uncommon.

Not to mention that modern processors are designed to have operational temperatures that are entirely within normal limits that many old timers insist are "hot."

Yes, in absolute terms, if you touch 'em, they're hot. But when you look at the spec sheets for what Tmax is before any throttling occurs, they're nowhere close.

Times and technology change and evolve.

 

[Big Jim]

Not to mention that modern processors are designed to have operational temperatures that are entirely within normal limits that many old timers insist are "hot."

Yes, in absolute terms, if you touch 'em, they're hot. But when you look at the spec sheets for what Tmax is before any throttling occurs, they're nowhere close.

Times and technology change and evolve.

which is crazy to think, when comparing CPUs that were built on a 130nm process and modern ones are down to 5nm now.