Linux vs Windows

[vdub12]

About your pricing and hardware. To start with I have a Macbook I got back in 2008 for around $900. I buy refurb when I get a Mac and Max out the specs myself. Do you really want to compare the build quality of a Mac to a $400 walmart computer? Same specs, maybe but a far better quality product and it comes with a better more secure, more user friendly OS.

Actually this is incorrect. I have been inside many MACs and talked to people that know a lot about them and there hardware is not high quality. In fact there hardware is sub par in most cases. They have company's like foxcon make motherboards for them in some cases and I have pulled memory out of them that was from manufacturers that I had never heard of, crazy cheap stuff. They truly are a lowest bidder company especially on there lower end (($1000)) notebooks. So yes comparing them to $400 walmart notebooks is quite accurate. This may be different in there higher end models but for the most part its the way it goes for there bottom of the shelf stuff.

The $691 million spent on advertising last year might have something to do with it.

Ditto.

 

[gunslinger]

This seems to be turning into an anti Mac rant so I'm not sure how much this has to to with the OP. Most Linux guys are pretty anti Mac though. I could go into great detail about what makes Macs better but it would be lost on the present company. I will say that the lowest end Mac is far better quality wise than the lower end PCs and at the high end there is no comparsion in quality at all. But you are a Linux guy, everything should be free and open and really techie to work on....lol


A few years ago I would have agreed with you but I had to take a few steps back and look at things through the customers eyes for a bit. When the normal non-tech person buys a new computer they look for certain things.

1. Will it do what I need it to do? (run the software I need it to)
2. Is it easy to set up and use? (can I install my printer and my software without work arounds or downloading other stuff.)
3. Will it last or will I have to throw it away in a year? (Mac seem to far exceed the life of PCs and have much greater resale value)
4. What about customer support? (when I call does the guy speak english or engrish?)


I think these are just a few reasons why Macs are so much more popular than Linux. Does apple adversise? Sure they do, is that a bad thing?

 

[Crgky127]

This seems to be turning into an anti Mac rant so I'm not sure how much this has to to with the OP. Most Linux guys are pretty anti Mac though. I could go into great detail about what makes Macs better but it would be lost on the present company. I will say that the lowest end Mac is far better quality wise than the lower end PCs and at the high end there is no comparsion in quality at all. But you are a Linux guy, everything should be free and open and really techie to work on....lol


A few years ago I would have agreed with you but I had to take a few steps back and look at things through the customers eyes for a bit. When the normal non-tech person buys a new computer they look for certain things.

1. Will it do what I need it to do? (run the software I need it to)
2. Is it easy to set up and use? (can I install my printer and my software without work arounds or downloading other stuff.)
3. Will it last or will I have to throw it away in a year? (Mac seem to far exceed the life of PCs and have much greater resale value)
4. What about customer support? (when I call does the guy speak english or engrish?)


I think these are just a few reasons why Macs are so much more popular than Linux. Does apple adversise? Sure they do, is that a bad thing?

Of course it's not a bad thing, I only brought it up in regards to market share. More advertising for Linux wouldn't be a bad thing either. I actually have to tip my hat to Apple, they do a decent job at advertising. The point is, even with those 4 things, without that advertising budget Macs would not be so popular. I would even guess that it counts for more than over half of those things. People look for things they know, whether it's from the office or TV. Windows is crap, and has 90% market share; 'nuff said.

 

[gunslinger]

Of course it's not a bad thing, I only brought it up in regards to market share. More advertising for Linux wouldn't be a bad thing either. I actually have to tip my hat to Apple, they do a decent job at advertising. The point is, even with those 4 things, without that advertising budget Macs would not be so popular. I would even guess that it counts for more than over half of those things. People look for things they know, whether it's from the office or TV. Windows is crap, and has 90% market share; 'nuff said.

Two things here.

I do think Linux would be more popular if they advertised. Problem is its free so who is gonna pay for that? Second thing is that until recently Windows did not do much advertising and still had an iron grip on the market. There are a few reason for this but the most major one is Windows comes on 99% of all OEM computers. Very few people in the great scheme of things actually go out and buy Windows.

 

[vdub12]

But you are a Linux guy, everything should be free and open and really techie to work on....lol

The majority of Linux users don't use Linux because it doesn't cost anything. The definition of free in the Linux world is its free to use the way you want to not that its free of cost. This stereo type makes all Linux users look like hackers living in there parents attic. Most Linux users don't mind paying for what they like. Many Linux users are involved in the community or Linux groups and even give cash to projects they want to support.

My point was that I have used macbook's and I also have OSX loaded on my Dell Mini10v and my dell runs just as good, better in some cases. I am not discounting OSX. Apples has an amazing kick a$$ operating system. Its very restrictive and noob like but for good reason, they are not exactly targeting hackers. However, there hardware is no different then there PC counterparts. They are also not worth the premium price. Some of there hardware is just downright cheap and would be dogged on if it came in an HP.

I am not trying to be anti MAC. I like OSX better then Windows but there computers are just ridiculously expensive and there is no warrant to the cost. [/quote]

4. What about customer support? (when I call does the guy speak english or engrish?)

Yes when you call them you talk to an American that speaks English. However, every time I have called them they will not help you. There support is no better then the other company's out there. The last experience I had with Apple was with a lady that turned her computer off for 4 months during a move and when she turned it back on her mac.com email would not log in. She pays $100 a year for it and they told me the account was locked and could give no explanation. They said I could only get support though e-mail or chat. The person on chat could not help and said it had to go to another team and would take 48 hours. 48 hours to get a paid email service working again. Thats not great support.

 

[ATTech]

This seems to be turning into an anti Mac rant so I'm not sure how much this has to to with the OP. Most Linux guys are pretty anti Mac though. I could go into great detail about what makes Macs better but it would be lost on the present company. I will say that the lowest end Mac is far better quality wise than the lower end PCs and at the high end there is no comparsion in quality at all. But you are a Linux guy, everything should be free and open and really techie to work on....lol


A few years ago I would have agreed with you but I had to take a few steps back and look at things through the customers eyes for a bit. When the normal non-tech person buys a new computer they look for certain things.

1. Will it do what I need it to do? (run the software I need it to)
2. Is it easy to set up and use? (can I install my printer and my software without work arounds or downloading other stuff.)
3. Will it last or will I have to throw it away in a year? (Mac seem to far exceed the life of PCs and have much greater resale value)
4. What about customer support? (when I call does the guy speak english or engrish?)


I think these are just a few reasons why Macs are so much more popular than Linux. Does apple adversise? Sure they do, is that a bad thing?

Would you go as far as to say then, that Google Chrome OS, a Linux based distribution that focuses on cloud computing, has no chance at making anymore of a dent in the Windows/OSX market then any other Linux distribution? If Andoird vs iOS/Blackberry/Palm/WinMo gives us any indication...

 

[angry_geek]

Would you go as far as to say then, that Google Chrome OS, a Linux based distribution that focuses on cloud computing, has no chance at making anymore of a dent in the Windows/OSX market then any other Linux distribution? If Andoird vs iOS/Blackberry/Palm/WinMo gives us any indication...

That's an interesting thought, but ultimately I'm not sure Google OS will make a dent. So far, for the most part, It's vapor ware. They keep hinting at its potential while pushing back a release date. I think it may make an impact in the netbook/tablet market. However, I'm not sure the majority of the computing public is ready for a totally cloud centric device. Too many people don't have access to high speed internet around the clock.

 

[gunslinger]

That's an interesting thought, but ultimately I'm not sure Google OS will make a dent. So far, for the most part, It's vapor ware. They keep hinting at its potential while pushing back a release date. I think it may make an impact in the netbook/tablet market. However, I'm not sure the majority of the computing public is ready for a totally cloud centric device. Too many people don't have access to high speed internet around the clock.

You took the words right out of my mouth. If the Google OS ever actually makes it to market on laptops or desktops I think it will take many years to gain a real following.


@vdub12

I have never had a problem with Apples support or know anyone who has.

 

[ATTech]

That's an interesting thought, but ultimately I'm not sure Google OS will make a dent. So far, for the most part, It's vapor ware. They keep hinting at its potential while pushing back a release date. I think it may make an impact in the netbook/tablet market. However, I'm not sure the majority of the computing public is ready for a totally cloud centric device. Too many people don't have access to high speed internet around the clock.

I'm certainly not arguing that ChromeOS is going to instantly sweep up the market, but it seems like the netbook/tablet market is steadily growing to be the market, just as Smartphones have done for the cell phone market. I think people are moving more and more towards cloud computing; think about the growing popularity of some of the cloud based programs/services: Dropbox, Hulu, Netflix, Google Apps, etc. Our computing power has outgrown the majority of people, and I can see that gap being filled in by the netbook/tablet/smartphone devices.

 

[gunslinger]

I'm certainly not arguing that ChromeOS is going to instantly sweep up the market, but it seems like the netbook/tablet market is steadily growing to be the market, just as Smartphones have done for the cell phone market. I think people are moving more and more towards cloud computing; think about the growing popularity of some of the cloud based programs/services: Dropbox, Hulu, Netflix, Google Apps, etc. Our computing power has outgrown the majority of people, and I can see that gap being filled in by the netbook/tablet/smartphone devices.

I will agree that Linux has a nice role in the netbook/tablet/smartphone side of things. I think that stops at Netbooks unless you are talking servers. For the home notebook or desktop system the average user can do much better.

 

[vdub12]

That's an interesting thought, but ultimately I'm not sure Google OS will make a dent. So far, for the most part, It's vapor ware. They keep hinting at its potential while pushing back a release date. I think it may make an impact in the netbook/tablet market. However, I'm not sure the majority of the computing public is ready for a totally cloud centric device. Too many people don't have access to high speed internet around the clock.

I am waiting for my Google CR-48 right now. I can't wait to get it and see how it runs. I have read mixed reviews. I think that if its going to make any kind of dent it should be a full OS rather then just a browser based OS but who knows, Google is putting a ton of money in to the Beta testing so they must think theres something there. And I am not one to turn down a free notebook.

I have never had a problem with Apples support or know anyone who has.

I have had the opposite experience. I have had many customers complain about Apple support.

I'm certainly not arguing that ChromeOS is going to instantly sweep up the market, but it seems like the netbook/tablet market is steadily growing to be the market, just as Smartphones have done for the cell phone market. I think people are moving more and more towards cloud computing; think about the growing popularity of some of the cloud based programs/services: Dropbox, Hulu, Netflix, Google Apps, etc. Our computing power has outgrown the majority of people, and I can see that gap being filled in by the netbook/tablet/smartphone devices.

I don't know if they will sweep the market but I do think they will have a nitch device that should do well. Its at least a step forward to having Linux on a consumer desktop.

 

[vdub12]

I will agree that Linux has a nice role in the netbook/tablet/smartphone side of things. I think that stops at Netbooks unless you are talking servers. For the home notebook or desktop system the average user can do much better.

I'm confused as to the difference here between a netbook and notebook. If Linux can be successful on in the netbook market why can't it equally be as successful on the notebook market.

 

[Ccomp5950]

I'm confused as to the difference here between a netbook and notebook. If Linux can be successful on in the netbook market why can't it equally be as successful on the notebook market.

to me it seems it's better on netbooks because netbooks don't appear to be for anything other than for email / internet access. Tablets will probably swallow the entire netbook market up but that's to be seen.

 

[gunslinger]

to me it seems it's better on netbooks because netbooks don't appear to be for anything other than for email / internet access. Tablets will probably swallow the entire netbook market up but that's to be seen.

Exactly. If all you are going to do is basic internet and maybe a note or two now and then netbooks with Linux are fine. Most people expect a bit more from a full sized notebook.

 

[vdub12]

to me it seems it's better on netbooks because netbooks don't appear to be for anything other than for email / internet access. Tablets will probably swallow the entire netbook market up but that's to be seen.

Exactly. If all you are going to do is basic internet and maybe a note or two now and then netbooks with Linux are fine. Most people expect a bit more from a full sized notebook.

Maybe i just expect more from my computers but my Dell MINI 10v is used as if it where a standard notebook. I use it for almost everything that I would normally use a notebook for. In fact when I got it I gave my full size notebook to my wife.

 

[gunslinger]

Maybe i just expect more from my computers but my Dell MINI 10v is used as if it where a standard notebook. I use it for almost everything that I would normally use a notebook for. In fact when I got it I gave my full size notebook to my wife.

My 13 year old girl has a Dell Mini 9 and it works ok with XP on it. I cant stand to use it for more than a few mins though. A decent 13" screen is about as small as I'm willing to go, but thats just me.

 

[Ccomp5950]

My 13 year old girl has a Dell Mini 9 and it works ok with XP on it. I cant stand to use it for more than a few mins though. A decent 13" screen is about as small as I'm willing to go, but thats just me.

I have a netbook I use for onsite work. It's heavily customized and will take over a network if I plug it in through ethernet.(DHCP, DNS, tftp for network booting other computers). Wireless it's just another netbook. It's very nice, because it's just big enough to do what I want and that's it.

I couldn't see myself using it like a laptop. The eye strain alone would scare me.

 

[ATTech]

My 13 year old girl has a Dell Mini 9 and it works ok with XP on it. I cant stand to use it for more than a few mins though. A decent 13" screen is about as small as I'm willing to go, but thats just me.

I'm with vdub on this. I use mine for internet, email, programming, media, light gaming, etc. If I need more powerful processing, then I can use it as a thin-client to my home machine. Some people can handle the small screen, some can't. Personally, I can enjoy carrying a much lighter laptop as the tradeoff.

I have a netbook I use for onsite work. It's heavily customized and will take over a network if I plug it in through ethernet.(DHCP, DNS, tftp for network booting other computers). Wireless it's just another netbook. It's very nice, because it's just big enough to do what I want and that's it.

I couldn't see myself using it like a laptop. The eye strain alone would scare me.

I love using my netbook to pxeboot other computers. I even got a crossover cable so I wouldn't need any networking hardware.

 

[Ccomp5950]

I love using my netbook to pxeboot other computers. I even got a crossover cable so I wouldn't need any networking hardware.

Nice, the old shop I worked at thought I was nuts spending time on it, but it's a project that once setup, has saved me so much time.

netbook netbooting buddy!

 

[NeutronTech]

Maybe i just expect more from my computers but my Dell MINI 10v is used as if it where a standard notebook. I use it for almost everything that I would normally use a notebook for. In fact when I got it I gave my full size notebook to my wife.

I know a few people who use them as their primary computer.