Linux vs Windows

[wimwauters]

Sad thing is it would probably have worked okay, but the browser simply detects that it is not running under Windows and doesn't 'even try to load it. Just gives you a warning html page.

I think the sad thing is that their end-user base puts up with it.
Isn't it funny how tech journalists don't speak up about this
So much for people's hopes about the cloud making apps OS-agnostic.

They should have made it to render in whatever browser was running, despite the OS. That way if the page didn't look right, so be it. At least it would have been from a technical failure instead of a flat out boycott.

It takes more effort to collude & break a standard than it does to stick to it. You can bet Quickbooks is getting rewards from Mickeysoft for this. This is the kind of stuff they got up to in the 80ies and 90ies Rendering HTML has nothing to do with the OS, but everything with the browser. Please don't get confused by Mickeysoft's tactics.

I've tried other programs, QBO simply offers exactly what I need without all the extra garbage associated with these programs.

If you are happy for your accounting software to dictate what OS you can use, stick to it.
So what stopped you from running a VM for this legacy windows-only app?
Windows XP in a VM session is much faster a full-blown installation with antivirus, etc...

BTW, me & my accountant tend to use spreadsheets and databases
We've never been locked in to Windows or Mickeysoft Office.

 

[vdub12]

Used Ubuntu 10.10 and Linux Mint 9 recently. I'm impressed with how far its come but it still has its short comings.



Exactly.

What shortcomings are those?

Sad thing is it would probably have worked okay, but the browser simply detects that it is not running under Windows and doesn't 'even try to load it. Just gives you a warning html page. They should have made it to render in whatever browser was running, despite the OS. That way if the page didn't look right, so be it. At least it would have been from a technical failure instead of a flat out boycott.

I've tried other programs, QBO simply offers exactly what I need without all the extra garbage associated with these programs.

You can try changing the user agent in the browser.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59/

 

[angry_geek]

The fact is Linux will never be viable without overcoming one major hurdle. Users want to be able to buy a piece of software or hardware, plug it in, and start using it. They don't want to have to screw with vm's or terminal, nor should they have to. Until the developers overcome this, Linux will never be a contender to OSX or Windows.

 

[NeutronTech]

my office machine has some performance issues, so running an XP VM would slow things down considerably. I like Windows just fine, but I find linux interesting and would certainly like to learn it much better. More and mnore people are going to switch to it.

 

[NeutronTech]

The fact is Linux will never be viable without overcoming one major hurdle. Users want to be able to buy a piece of software or hardware, plug it in, and start using it. They don't want to have to screw with vm's or terminal, nor should they have to. Until the developers overcome this, Linux will never be a contender to OSX or Windows.

I disagree. I think that as more and more tablet pcs and smartphones arrive, you are going to start seeing linux more and more. Also, when pcs become "disposable", The OS is going be optimized for the cloud, linux.

 

[wimwauters]

The fact is Linux will never be viable without overcoming one major hurdle. Users want to be able to buy a piece of software or hardware, plug it in, and start using it. They don't want to have to screw with vm's or terminal, nor should they have to. Until the developers overcome this, Linux will never be a contender to OSX or Windows.

Where to start

This has nothing to do with developers, or techs, being stuck in the early nineties. And there's a lot to be said for running legacy software in a sandbox (i.e. VM).

And what about Android? It's outselling OSX & Windows phones (I'm talking sales/activations to endusers, not channel-stuffing )

And there's plenty of hardware out there, even in shops with cardboard boxes on shelves, that works fine with say, Ubuntu.

And yes, if an end-user buys a box with software that only runs on windows, they'll have a hard time making it run on OSX
That type of shop used to sell software that only ran on CP/M, or C=64, or only on DOS, but somehow I don't think they'll ever sell many boxes with GPL software in it. I hope you can figure out why.

Every once and a while a legacy/complacent monopoly is simply left behind. It happened to the Amiga. It almost happened to Mickeysoft in the nineties when the great architect & visionary, Bill Gates, missed the rise of the internet

 

[vdub12]

The fact is Linux will never be viable without overcoming one major hurdle. Users want to be able to buy a piece of software or hardware, plug it in, and start using it. They don't want to have to screw with vm's or terminal, nor should they have to. Until the developers overcome this, Linux will never be a contender to OSX or Windows.

I have to highly disagree. Most hardware works just fine in Linux without much work. In fact some requires less work then windows. Just look at the new OpenSUSE with there printer support. You plug it in and print with no drivers to install. On the subject of software there is a Linux alternative to almost everything available for Windows. Out of that almost all of it is OSS and Free. The only big hurtle that Linux has left is gaming and thats the developers fault not the Linux OS. However, with more and more games being made x-platform for OSX the transition to Linux will be even easier. Remember OSX is BSD based. Today Linux is a great alternative to a basic standard home PC as well as a buisness system. Its more secure by design and will never suffer from the security problems that Windows suffers from today. The UI has kept up with the times and in my opinion KDE4 compiz looks way better then both Windows and OSX. Everyone that sees my systems wants to know how they can make there windows wobble to, lol.

Two years ago I would have completely agreed with you that Linux is not ready for the desktop market but today I think its more then ready. In another 2 years I would say that I think it will be a far better alternative. To many people think inside the box and don't realize whats available. By saying that a customer can't buy a piece of software at wallmart and install it on there Linux system and basing that fact on its readiness for the desktop market I think is close minded.

This isn't even considering the fact that many of those programs can run with crossover. I am using office 2003 on my system right now and it runs great.

There are many people that can benefit from a Linux desktop and in years to come i believe that there will be many people depending on them for there daily computing. Thats a fact that can't be avoided. Linux is growing fast and development is moving at a quicker rate then any other operating system out there. Just think about how fast Linux has reached where it is today. Then notice that its been in development for about half the time Windows has.

 

[vdub12]

I just wanted to add something to my post.

Here is an example of the modern Linux UI.

Windows and OSX have nothing on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4fTh0x3xLE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 

[angry_geek]

You may disagree all you want. As an experiment, try putting a few Linux boxes in the hands of typical users. See how long it takes before you get phone calls because their scrabble game won't run or they want to do something they've done a thousand times in PowerPoint and now can't figure out. You'll be holding their hands for eternity.

 

[vdub12]

You may disagree all you want. As an experiment, try putting a few Linux boxes in the hands of typical users. See how long it takes before you get phone calls because their scrabble game won't run or they want to do something they've done a thousand times in PowerPoint and now can't figure out. You'll be holding their hands for eternity.

My wife uses Linux on a daily basis and she is not a tech believe me. She does just fine. The less knowledge a customer has of computers the better off they are using Linux.

 

[16k_zx81]

My wife uses Linux on a daily basis and she is not a tech believe me. She does just fine. The less knowledge a customer has of computers the better off they are using Linux.

Yes thats an interesting observation, which brings us back to the original point of the thread which is about the suitability of referring Linux to end-users.

I think this category of customer can do ok with it. However, there will be the inevitable phone call when they can't get their mobile USB Internet stick to work, or they buy an i-thing and can't figure out how to get i-tunes installed, or just about any other piece of hardware that comes with an installer disk and isnt auto detected.

In this regard, Im not sure we're doing some users a favor. I charge $80 for a call-out. A copy of OEM W7 here is $99. The point Im making is that in some respects it could cost the Customer more in support than in the outlay for an OS that their new toys will just plug into and work with.

In any case, I think some of the discussion here is drifting off-topic. Its not a debate about Win vs Linux - as we all know these type of discussions usually take a lot of energy and tend just to polarise people. Linux is a cool OS, its quite a different user experience from Windows though.

The OP posted a question about suitability and pros and cons of referring Linux to our customers. Thats probably a more productive discussion than getting into debates about which is 'better'.

 

[vdub12]

The OP posted a question about suitability and pros and cons of referring Linux to our customers. Thats probably a more productive discussion than getting into debates about which is 'better'.

Very true.

Better is relative when it comes to this subject anyway. For me yes Linux is better. However, for other people Windows is better.

To get back on track with the subject at hand I do believe that Linux is reached a level to where it can be a great alternative for end users. You also have brought up some good points. It is possible to put music on your ipod with Linux but the steps may be out of reach for an end user. Also installing software to a point may be difficult. However, like I said earlier crossover is closing this gap.

I think that Linux is perfect for a buisness environment and for the home there are many people that can benefit from the security and simplistic nature that Linux can achieve.

In regards to support the same goes for Linux as it does for Windows. If a customer can't burn a CD in Windows I am going to charge them the same as if the problem was in Linux. With this said there are some users that may not be ready for Linux just because the volume of help that they may need. However, give it a few years and I am positive that gap will close. Just look at the big players that are getting involved lately.

 

[gunslinger]

The fact is Linux will never be viable without overcoming one major hurdle. Users want to be able to buy a piece of software or hardware, plug it in, and start using it. They don't want to have to screw with vm's or terminal, nor should they have to. Until the developers overcome this, Linux will never be a contender to OSX or Windows.

This is what I have been saying for years, and you know what? Linux is no more popular in the real world on desktop end user machines today than it was 5-10 years ago. OS X yes.

What shortcomings are those?

See above quote. Plus the fact that they can't get together on one or two versions and there are as many as there are developers.

 

[Ccomp5950]

I was using Linux on my office computer up until a few months ago. No matter what browser I tried, Quickbooks Online wouldn't work or run properly. If I can find a solution to this problem, I may go back to using it.

I use quickbooks online and have been hitting them with emails about it, I use a useragent changer to make my useragent say:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2) Gecko/20100115 Firefox/3.6 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)

and then quickbooks would let me in.

Now it appears you get a minor nag screen that says "We don't support Linux but you can get in" instead of just outright blocking it.

 

[vdub12]

This is what I have been saying for years, and you know what? Linux is no more popular in the real world on desktop end user machines today than it was 5-10 years ago. OS X yes.

This is not factual. Linux is far more popular now then it was 5 to 10 years ago. There are now countless consumer products based on Linux. Also there are many manufacturers selling Linux. Google and Dell being just a few. In the last 5 years there has been more development behind Linux then all the years proceeding it.

See above quote. Plus the fact that they can't get together on one or two versions and there are as many as there are developers.

This is one of the reasons Linux is so secure, diversity. Why in the world would we just want one or two distros if we have have diversity in the kinds of things you want out of your operating system. We have distros targeted at new users, we have distros targeted at power users, we have distros targeted at people with disabilities, we have distros developed for servers, we have live distros targeted towards computer repair and data recovery, we have small distros and large distros, we have distros tailored for consumer and embedded devices, we have distros for cell phones, we have distros to meet everyones needs. Why in the world would we one want one version. Thats like saying we should only have one make and model of car on the road and to me thats just boring.

Also you still have not opened my eyes on any short comings. Is it that you can't install a program from wallmart? If so then thats just not true. Is it because hardware is not compatible? again thats not true. In most cases hardware on Linux works better then it does on Windows.

 

[NeutronTech]

I had installed Ubuntu not too long ago, and I must say, it was incredibly user friendly. I think that someone who has never used a computer before would find it more user friendly than Windows. Plus there is a ton of applications for it that are free. There's' free programs to cover just about any need you may have. Installing programs and hardware was simple and easy.

 

[gunslinger]

This is not factual. Linux is far more popular now then it was 5 to 10 years ago. There are now countless consumer products based on Linux. Also there are many manufacturers selling Linux. Google and Dell being just a few. In the last 5 years there has been more development behind Linux then all the years proceeding it.

Really? You might want to re-read what I said.

"Linux is no more popular in the real world on desktop end user machines today than it was 5-10 years ago."

I never said anything about servers, phones or other products. I said real world end user desktop systems. It also did not fly with Dell because something like 70% of the Ubuntu machines were getting returned. This from a guy who used to work for Dell.

Also you still have not opened my eyes on any short comings. Is it that you can't install a program from wallmart? If so then thats just not true. Is it because hardware is not compatible? again thats not true. In most cases hardware on Linux works better then it does on Windows.

Really? Ok lets test that. Go to walmart and buy some software. Lets see, how about Norton AV, Turbo Tax and Black OPS. Now, without doing any tweaking, hacking, terminal work arounds or downloading anything else, lets see you pop the Disc in your Ubuntu machine and it just work. If you can do this with a stock install of any Linux distro I'll be impressed. Hell, I just might take back everything I said about Linux...lol

 

[16k_zx81]

When I originally saw the title of this post, I had a feeling it would go down this track, but it was potentially an interesting discussion, so thought I would join.

But alas, it has.

Will leave you all to it.

 

[Ccomp5950]

It also did not fly with Dell because something like 70% of the Ubuntu machines were getting returned. This from a guy who used to work for Dell.

I'm not so sure of your claim.

http://www.dell.com/ubuntu

 

[vdub12]

Really? You might want to re-read what I said.

"Linux is no more popular in the real world on desktop end user machines today than it was 5-10 years ago."

I never said anything about servers, phones or other products. I said real world end user desktop systems. It also did not fly with Dell because something like 70% of the Ubuntu machines were getting returned. This from a guy who used to work for Dell.

This is just downright false. I have worked on many Dell Linux systems and they are amassing. Dell has done a great job of integrating Linux in to there products. I have talked to the Dell ubuntu team many times and honestly they have a better support system then the Windows counter part. I have always been the first to put down Dell's customer service but there ubuntu team is amazing and there systems are grate. The bottom line is if there returns where so bad then why are they still selling them and why do they have a whole department just for ubuntu?

Really? Ok lets test that. Go to walmart and buy some software. Lets see, how about Norton AV, Turbo Tax and Black OPS. Now, without doing any tweaking, hacking, terminal work arounds or downloading anything else, lets see you pop the Disc in your Ubuntu machine and it just work. If you can do this with a stock install of any Linux distro I'll be impressed. Hell, I just might take back everything I said about Linux...lol

Ok really. Why would I install Norton AV on a Linux system? Thats just stupid. Turbo tax? No problem crossover will detect the autorun and install it. According to crossovers website turbotax 2003 to 2007 has a gold metal. Since turbotax rarely changes I am sure there newest software will work just fine. even though I have an accountant do my taxes I am half way tempted to download the newest version and install it just to prove it.

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=181

On the subject of Black OPS it also has a gold metal rating with crossover games.

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=8218

Gaming I may add I did say was lacking with Linux. However, crossover games is doing a good job in making it work.

I also want to add that crossover is not just wine. Its a full implementation that allows you to install software without needing to go to the console.

I'm not so sure of your claim.

http://www.dell.com/ubuntu

As stated above I have worked on a few of those dell mini 9's and they are amazing systems. I had one in a while back that the customer wanted upgraded from ubuntu 9.4 to 10.10 and it ran great. The netbook remix is great.