Limited partner or solo?

Ultraman

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I am planning to open a computer repair store in a good location with little competition. I have a business model with some unique angles that I think will give a considerable boost to my revenue.

I have 15 years of high level professional IT management (Novell MCNE, MCSE). I have been out of IT for several years but have stayed current with hardware and software.

I met someone who has similar interests to open a store, however he is younger, less experienced, and frankly I have all the good ideas so far. I am considering taking him as a legal parter because frankly I don't know if I want 100% responsibility and I could use the help.

Does anyone have experience taking business partners? It would really help insofar as getting business credit, etc. It think it would be nice to split responsibilities and don't mind sharing profits, I think there is plenty to be made. I just worry about partnerships as I have heard nightmare stories more than often than not. Also I have unique innovative market/model ideas that could account for the bulk of the success.
 
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I met someone who has similar interests to open a store, however he is younger, less experienced, and frankly I have all the good ideas so far. I am considering taking him as a legal parter because frankly I don't know if I want 100% responsibility and I could use the help.

Is this the only reason you want to take him on as a partner? If so, that doesn't seem like a good partnership to me. From your post, it sounds like you have the experience, you have the drive, you have the ideas, and he's just along for the ride. If that's the case, you may be setting yourself up to create another one of those partnership horror stories. But hey, at least you have someone to share the blame if the business fails, right? ;)

My advice is to conquer your nervousness (or fear?) about having 100% of the responsibility. Maybe once you get your business rolling, you can hire this other guy as a tech.
 
IMO, partnerships carry all their benefits up front, after that, you want the partner out.

You said limited partnership, what did you mean by that? Does that mean there is an exit strategy for the partner? If so, what is it?

Why are you considering wanting a partner in the first place? Is it financial? Or, are you considering that this partner will be able to be a warm body that can sit in the store when you are not there without the hassles of employees.

Need more info.
 
Don't really understand this:

"however he is younger, less experienced, and frankly I have all the good ideas so far. I am considering taking him as a legal parter because frankly I don't know if I want 100% responsibility and I could use the help."

To me it does not really even sound like you are ready to open a business on your own. Great you have the ideas but if you don't want 100% of the responsibility and you need the help then why do it?

I had a partner years ago and it was because he was smart, driven, etc..So the partnership made total sense. It was not because either one of us did not want the responsibility or needed the other for one reason or another.

I think you really need to think if this is something "you" want to do vice a partner.
 
I am planning to open a computer repair store in a good location with little competition. I have a business model with some unique angles that I think will give a considerable boost to my revenue.

I have 15 years of high level professional IT management (Novell MCNE, MCSE). I have been out of IT for several years but have stayed current with hardware and software.

I met someone who has similar interests to open a store, however he is younger, less experienced, and frankly I have all the good ideas so far. I am considering taking him as a legal parter because frankly I don't know if I want 100% responsibility and I could use the help.

Does anyone have experience taking business partners? It would really help insofar as getting business credit, etc. It think it would be nice to split responsibilities and don't mind sharing profits, I think there is plenty to be made. I just worry about partnerships as I have heard nightmare stories more than often than not. Also I have unique innovative market/model ideas that could account for the bulk of the success.

If you don't want 100% of the responsibility, I'd rethink starting your own business. Whether you tell yourself you're 100% or 50%, in the end, it's YOUR business.
And if you just want help, I'd hire someone instead of going partners. If you tell yourself you can't afford to hire someone, I'd rethink starting your own business, or figure out how you can do it on your own.
I tried starting a business with a partner (and now former friend). I think he thought he was contributing more, but I "know" I was contributing more. It didn't work out. From my own experience and everything I've read, most partnerships don't work out (HP is the exception instead of the rule). If you do go the partnership route, put everything in writing first.
On the positive side, after the partnership failed, I then started a business by myself. It seemed more stressful, but I think it was actually the same stress level, and it's better to only have yourself to blame. :) There are a lot of trade offs. I missed the regular paycheck, but liked getting to keep all the reward for what I did (minus taxes, but that's another story). I liked the freedom, even though the hours were longer and the boss was a slave driver. Having your own business isn't for everyone, that's for sure, but if you do it, I'd do it alone and NOT with a partner.
Good luck in any event!
There's nothing like being your own boss.
 
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Yea thanks everyone basically for telling me what I know deep down.
I have to decide if I want 100% responsibility in the current business climate in California. With Obamacare and taxes it is looks daunting.

What worries me is I already to the guy a couple really key business strategies to which he latched onto. I'm afraid I've already made my own competition.

You can't be to careful. Don't trust ANYONE with business ideas they will either steal them or repeat them to someone who will. Look at Tesla the dumbass had a big mouth.
 
Yea thanks everyone basically for telling me what I know deep down.
I have to decide if I want 100% responsibility in the current business climate in California. With Obamacare and taxes it is looks daunting.

What worries me is I already to the guy a couple really key business strategies to which he latched onto. I'm afraid I've already made my own competition.

You can't be to careful. Don't trust ANYONE with business ideas they will either steal them or repeat them to someone who will. Look at Tesla the dumbass had a big mouth.

Good lesson to have learned... keep your mouth shut. If your idea is a moneymaker, keep it to yourself!
I also agree on your observation about California.
 
Fly Solo is you can, I am in a business with a partner we started with 1k loan from both of us and now the business brings in over 100k a year and its a side business for us, however i am to the point where I would love to go full time with the company but so does my partner and the company can't afford that.

Also I put in tons more work then he does and he knows it but the richer I make myself the more money I make him and he does nothing for it, i tried to buy him out but he gives me a guilt trip about how we started together we should sell together, blah blah so i have given up on the company and just take my monthly check from it and just handle basic support needs for our clients.

the business is a Wireless ISP in a rural area

point is i would never do another business with a partner only investors
 
What worries me is I already to the guy a couple really key business strategies to which he latched onto. I'm afraid I've already made my own competition.

You can't be to careful. Don't trust ANYONE with business ideas they will either steal them or repeat them to someone who will. Look at Tesla the dumbass had a big mouth.

What makes a successful business in just a small part the idea and mainly execution. Him knowing your idea is not an issue; executing it well(by your self) should be you only concern.
 
In 20 + years in business I have been looking for a partner and I still am. I think you can do do much more with the right partner. As you can see the right partner, like a marriage is very hard to find.

Still I will continue to look and One day I may find
 
1) If you are going to have a partnership, set up an operating agreement or some other way of stating how it all goes down. Decide who makes the decisions, what is there power, etc. For us, it is simple. Day to Day decisions are handled by me, quick on the fly stuff. We have one person who manages all the HR, and she makes decisions for the most part on that when and how she wants (Scheduling, pay, etc.). Another makes decisions based on how best to allocate technical resources to clients, and the such (mostly he handles the contracts side of the house...kinda). Here is a snip-it from ours:

5.1 Management of Company.
5.1.1 The Members, within the authority granted by the Act and the terms of this Agreement shall have the complete power and authority to manage and operate the Company and make all decisions affecting its business and affairs.
5.1.2 Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all decisions and documents relating to the management and operation of the Company shall be made and executed by a Majority in Interest of the Members.
5.1.3 Third parties dealing with the Company shall be entitled to rely conclusively upon the power and authority of a Majority in Interest of the Members to manage and operate the business and affairs of the Company.
5.2 Decisions by Members. Whenever in this Agreement reference is made to the decision, consent, approval, judgment, or action of the Members, unless otherwise expressly provided in this Agreement, such decision, consent, approval, judgment, or action shall mean a Majority of the Members.
5.3 Withdrawal by a Member. A Member has no power to withdraw from the Company, except as otherwise provided in Section 8.
5.4 Positions and Duties of Members.
5.4.1 Chief Executive Officer (“CEO”). [Name Omitted] will be charged as the CEO, and will be able to make final decisions over all human, financial, environmental and technical operations of the company. The CEO will be responsible for day-to-day operations of the company that affect the entire area of the company, to include agreements and financial decisions in accordance with this agreement.
5.4.2 Chief Human Resources Officer (“CHRO”). [Name Omitted] will be charged as the CHRO, and oversee all human resources management and industrial relations operations for the organization. Responsibilities will include workforce strategy and division, organizational and performance conductor, human resources delivery owner, and compliance and governance regulator. The CHRO will have final says on the hiring of all new employees of the Company.
5.4.3 Chief Information Technology Process Officer (“CITPO”). [Name Omitted] will be charged as the CITPO, and will oversee all process management practices concerning the support, administration and management of managed and non-managed IT support agreements. The CITPO will assess, develop, and introduce best practice documents, processes and training for the support, administration and management of client and non-client information technology resources.
5.4.4 Additional Duties and Positions. Members may be assigned additional duties as agreed upon by all members, and documented in the appropriate company policies.

Yeah...there are three of us...wanna talk partnership??? try one of my weekly meetings....

2) How does one get paid??? That is a hard one to do up...we have a section on nothing but salaries, reimbursement, and payment of expenses...here are the ones that are very cut and dry on splitting it up...

6.1 Organization Expenses. All expenses incurred in connection with organization of the Company will be paid by the Company.
6.2 Salary. No salary will be paid to a Member for the performance of his or her duties under this Agreement unless the salary has been approved in writing by a Majority of the Members.
6.3 Legal and Accounting Services. The Company may obtain legal and accounting services to the extent reasonably necessary for the conduct of the Company's business.

HA!!! You get no salary...

"but you can just take out right???"

3.1 Profits/Losses. For financial accounting and tax purposes, the Company's net profits or net losses shall be determined on an annual basis and shall be allocated to the Members in proportion to each Member's relative capital interest in the Company as set forth in Schedule 2 as amended from time to time in accordance with U.S. Department of the Treasury Regulation 1.704-1.
3.2 Distributions. The Members shall determine and distribute available funds annually or at more frequent intervals as they see fit based on the decision of the majority of the members. Available funds, as referred to herein, shall mean the net cash of the Company available after appropriate provision for expenses and liabilities, as determined by the Managers. Distributions in liquidation of the Company or in liquidation of a Member's interest shall be made in accordance with the positive capital account balances pursuant to U.S. Department of the Treasury Regulation 1.704.1(b)(2)(ii)(b)(2). To the extent a Member shall have a negative capital account balance, there shall be a qualified income offset, as set forth in U.S. Department of the Treasury Regulation 1.704.1(b)(2)(ii)(d).

3.1 states that for tax purposes only, you get a value of what your investment is worth for taxes. 3.2 states that the majority of the members must agree to a distribution (a tie is considered a no win...at least where I am).

So how do I get paid??? thanks to the raise we gave ourselves at the start of the year its nice...

6.5 Compensation As Of January 1st, 2014. Members of the Company who actively participate in managerial duties on a full time basis, as described in Section 5.4, will be paid at a rate of $37.50 per hour worked, not to exceed 160 hours per calendar month. All hours worked must be tracked using the [Pay Check People Device]...

So basically the cap right now is $6,000/month. Our HR lady only works about 12 hours a month...aka she comes for the meetings, does some crap...and leaves...Its my wife, so whatever...

There is also a blurb in there about contesting hours worked (6.4). It boils down to if one member believes another is cheating on their hours, then an investigation can be conducted on it. Cause in order for hours to be tracked, we use this keypad given to us by our pay check guys, we see when they clocked out, when they clocked in...etc. We pay for lunch, cause lets face it...sometimes your lunch break is a bite of a burger in between key presses and smacking your head up against the wall.

3) Make an agreement that benefits both (or all???) of you. Some one has to be considered the decision maker. If you decide whoever is there at that time, then be ready for them to make calls that are going to anger you. I only make on the fly decisions about contracts when my partner is busy. I only make HR decisions when a someone pisses me off.

4) It's long for a reason...
8.1 Sale or Encumbrance Prohibited. Except as otherwise permitted in this Agreement, no Member may voluntarily or involuntarily transfer, sell, convey, encumber, pledge, assign, or otherwise dispose of (collectively, "Transfer") an interest in the Company without the prior written consent of a majority of the other nontransferring Members determined on a per capita basis.
8.2 Right of First Refusal. Notwithstanding Section 8.1, a Member may transfer all or any part of the Member's interest in the Company (the "Interest") as follows:
8.2.1 The Member desiring to transfer his or her Interest first must provide written notice (the "Notice") to the other Members, specifying the price and terms on which the Member is prepared to sell the Interest (the "Offer").
8.2.2 For a period of 30 days after receipt of the Notice, the Members may acquire all, but not less than all, of the Interest at the price and under the terms specified in the Offer. If the other Members desiring to acquire the Interest cannot agree among themselves on the allocation of the Interest among them, the allocation will be proportional to the Ownership Interests of those Members desiring to acquire the Interest.
8.2.3 Closing of the sale of the Interest will occur as stated in the Offer; provided, however, that the closing will not be less than 45 days after expiration of the 30-day notice period.
8.2.4 If the other Members fail or refuse to notify the transferring Member of their desire to acquire all of the Interest proposed to be transferred within the 30-day period following receipt of the Notice, then the Members will be deemed to have waived their right to acquire the Interest on the terms described in the Offer, and the transferring Member may sell and convey the Interest consistent with the Offer to any other person or entity; provided, however, that notwithstanding anything in Section 8.2 to the contrary, should the sale to a third person be at a price or on terms that are more favorable to the purchaser than stated in the Offer, then the transferring Member must reoffer the sale of the Interest to the remaining Members at that other price or other terms; provided, further, that if the sale to a third person is not closed within six months after the expiration of the 30-day period describe above, then the provisions of Section 8.2 will again apply to the Interest proposed to be sold or conveyed.
8.2.5 Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of Section 8.2, should the sole remaining Member be entitled to and elect to acquire all the Interests of the other Members of the Company in accordance with the provisions of Section 8.2, the acquiring Member may assign the right to acquire the Interests to a spouse, lineal descendent, or an affiliated entity if the assignment is reasonably believed to be necessary to continue the existence of the Company as a limited liability company.
8.3 Substituted Parties. Any transfer in which the Transferee becomes a fully substituted Member is not permitted unless and until:
(1) The transferor and assignee execute and deliver to the Company the documents and instruments of conveyance necessary or appropriate in the opinion of counsel to the Company to effect the transfer and to confirm the agreement of the permitted assignee to be bound by the provisions of this Agreement; and
(2) The transferor furnishes to the Company an opinion of counsel, satisfactory to the Company, that the transfer will not cause the Company to terminate for federal income tax purposes or that any termination is not adverse to the Company or the other Members.
8.4 Death, Incompetency, or Bankruptcy of Member. On the death, adjudicated incompetence, or bankruptcy of a Member, unless the Company exercises its rights under Section 8.5, the successor in interest to the Member (whether an estate, bankruptcy trustee, or otherwise) will receive only the economic right to receive distributions whenever made by the Company and the Member's allocable share of taxable income, gain, loss, deduction, and credit (the "Economic Rights") unless and until a majority of the other Members determined on a per capita basis admit the transferee as a fully substituted Member in accordance with the provisions of Section 8.3.
8.4.1 Any transfer of Economic Rights pursuant to Section 8.4 will not include any right to participate in management of the Company, including any right to vote, consent to, and will not include any right to information on the Company or its operations or financial condition. Following any transfer of only the Economic Rights of a Member's Interest in the Company, the transferring Member's power and right to vote or consent to any matter submitted to the Members will be eliminated, and the Ownership Interests of the remaining Members, for purposes only of such votes, consents, and participation in management, will be proportionately increased until such time, if any, as the transferee of the Economic Rights becomes a fully substituted Member.
8.5 Death Buy Out. Notwithstanding the foregoing provision of Section 8, the Members covenant and agree that on the death of any Member, the Company, at its option, by providing written notice to the estate of the deceased Member within 180 days of the death of the Member, may purchase, acquire, and redeem the Interest of the deceased Member in the Company pursuant to the provision of Section 8.5.
8.5.1 The value of each Member's Interest in the Company will be determined on the date this Agreement is signed, and the value will be endorsed on Schedule 3 attached and made a part of this Agreement. The value of each Member's Interest will be redetermined unanimously by the Members annually, unless the Members unanimously decide to redetermine those values more frequently. The Members will use their best efforts to endorse those values on Schedule 3. The purchase price for a decedent Member's interest conclusively is the value last determined before the death of such Member; provided, however, that if the latest valuation is more than two years before the death of the deceased Member, the provisions of Section 8.5.2 will apply in determining the value of the Member's Interest in the Company.
8.5.2 If the Members have failed to value the deceased Member's Interest within the prior two-year period, the value of each Member's Interest in the Company on the date of death, in the first instance, will be determined by mutual agreement of the surviving Members and the personal representative of the estate of the deceased Member. If the parties cannot reach an agreement on the value within 30 days after the appointment of the personal representative of the deceased Member, then the surviving Members and the personal representative each must select a qualified appraiser within the next succeeding 30 days. The appraisers so selected must attempt to determine the value of the Company Interest owned by the decedent at the time of death based solely on their appraisal of the total value of the Company's assets and the amount the decedent would have received had the assets of the Company been sold at that time for an amount equal to their fair market value and the proceeds (after payment of all Company obligations) were distributed in the manner contemplated in Section 8. The appraisal may not consider and discount for the sale of a minority Interest in the Company. In the event the appraisers cannot agree on the value within 30 days after being selected, the two appraisers must, within 30 days, select a third appraiser. The value of the Interest of the decedent in the Company and the purchase price of it will be the average of the two appraisals nearest in amount to one another. That amount will be final and binding on all parties and their respective successors, assigns, and representatives. The costs and expenses of the third appraiser and any costs and expenses of the appraiser retained but not paid for by the estate of the deceased Member will be offset against the purchase price paid for the deceased Member's Interest in the Company.
8.5.3 Closing of the sale of the deceased Member's Interest in the Company will be held at the office of the Company on a date designated by the Company, not be later than 90 days after agreement with the personal representative of the deceased Member's estate on the fair market value of the deceased Member's Interest in the Company; provided, however, that if the purchase price are determined by appraisals as set forth in Section 8.5.2, the closing will be 30 days after the final appraisal and purchase price are determined. If no personal representative has been appointed within 60 days after the deceased Member's death, the surviving Members have the right to apply for and have a personal representative appointed.
8.5.4 At closing, the Company will pay the purchase price for the deceased Member's Interest in the Company. If the purchase price is less than $1,000.00, the purchase price will be paid in cash; if the purchase price is $1,000.00 or more, the purchase price will be paid as follows:
(1) $1,000.00 in cash, bank cashier's check, or certified funds;
(2) The balance of the purchase price by the Company executing and delivering its promissory note for the balance, with interest at the prime interest rate stated by primary banking institution utilized by the Company, its successors and assigns, at the time of the deceased Member's death. Interest will be payable monthly, with the principal sum being due and payable in three equal annual installments. The promissory note will be unsecured and will contain provisions that the principal sum may be paid in whole or in part at any time, without penalty.
8.5.5 At the closing, the deceased Member's estate or personal representative must assign to the Company all of the deceased Member's Interest in the Company free and clear of all liens, claims, and encumbrances, and, at the request of the Company, the estate or personal representative must execute all other instruments as may reasonably be necessary to vest in the Company all of the deceased Member's right, title, and interest in the Company and its assets. If either the Company or the deceased Member's estate or personal representative fails or refuses to execute any instrument required by this Agreement, the other party is hereby granted the irrevocable power of attorney which, it is agreed, is coupled with an interest, to execute and deliver on behalf of the failing or refusing party all instruments required to be executed and delivered by the failing or refusing party.
8.5.6 On completion of the purchase of the deceased Member's Interest in the Company, the Ownership Interests of the remaining Members will increase proportionately to their then existing Ownership Interests.

All in all...our operating agreement is about 19 pages...signed by all of us...

it is basically the law of the company...

There are also about 8 schedules, and 27 company policies attached...a partnership is the worst thing you can ever do...as someone already mentioned, its a marriage
 
All in all...our operating agreement is about 19 pages...signed by all of us...

it is basically the law of the company...

There are also about 8 schedules, and 27 company policies attached...a partnership is the worst thing you can ever do...as someone already mentioned, its a marriage

Wow! Seems like your arrangement covers just about everything! But that's the way to do it!
I'm assuming you didn't come up with this on your own...
Did a lawyer do it for you, and was it boilerplate that he modified, or was it pretty much from scratch? And about how much did it cost?
 
He has a template to work from to get it started. Not sure if it was one he put together, his company, or someone else. We all sat with our lawyer (company), answered a million questions, and we all had to come to a consensus in front of him for each answer given. We get along and already agreed to a bunch of stuff, so it all went smooth.

When it was all said and done, it took about 3 days for him to get it all put together, and ready for us to sign (notarized there). There are two originals (one he has, one we have), and we all got a copy (digital and paper). It was $300. So not bad. There have been changes since originally done up, or amendments, which were $50/amendment.

You really have to cover a lot. You may be thinking we over did it. But here is thing, what if a partner wants to sell the company, and there is nothing stopping them? Or a partner wants to claim more than their fair share? We are divided 60/20/20. I'm majority, but if we didn't document it in our operating agreement, or some other agreement, what it is stop a partner taking 99.99% of the company when in fact you own 50%? If a member dies, who gets their shares? There are a lot of things that need to be considered, that many people don't think about.

It doesn't matter if you a 1% member, or a 99% member, both have to be 100% responsible both legally and financially. You have to work together, and get along, because in the end, if one makes a move the other doesn't like, then it can spell disaster. Got to make sure everyone is on board. With the way we have pay setup, if someone isn't doing their share of the work, then they don't get paid. Plain and simple. Doing it the salary rate, we discussed, would be not good. Cause my wife would be making as much as me and my other partner for working 1/5 of what we work. Having a cap on what we get paid prevents us from emptying the bank on paying ourselves. And the company pays for all expenses. We don't. If a partner goes out and pays for a new computer, that's on them, and they can't turn around and go "well I invested in a new computer for the company". Well, yeah, you did....but right here it says the company is responsible for investing in what the company needs, not your pocket. This way time invested and money invested are separated.

We also have a "you aren't pulling your weight clause" in our agreement. Because all members must be active in the company, if a member becomes inactive (without good reason), they can be bought out 1 of 2 ways. 1) They get their initial capital investment back if they have been a member for less than 1 year, or 2) They get their investment back at the value of their shares. So like right now, if I was to be voted off the island, I would have to be paid 60% of the companies net worth, which would sink the company hard. Members can contest it in court saying they feel like they were...but that's for a judge to decide at that point.
 
With the attitude you have about this guy, I see things ending very badly between the two of you. If the guy wants to work, bring him on as an employee or a consultant. If you like working with him then you can offer him a % of the business.
 
We also have a "you aren't pulling your weight clause" in our agreement. Because all members must be active in the company, if a member becomes inactive (without good reason), they can be bought out 1 of 2 ways. 1) They get their initial capital investment back if they have been a member for less than 1 year, or 2) They get their investment back at the value of their shares. So like right now, if I was to be voted off the island, I would have to be paid 60% of the companies net worth, which would sink the company hard. Members can contest it in court saying they feel like they were...but that's for a judge to decide at that point.

Is it normal for the company to do the buyout?
 
With the attitude you have about this guy, I see things ending very badly between the two of you. If the guy wants to work, bring him on as an employee or a consultant. If you like working with him then you can offer him a % of the business.

Or you could consider letting him buy into the business but that is probably not realistic unless you are really bringing in the cash.
 
Is it normal for the company to do the buyout?

It's not the company buying the member out...basically, the member would be pulling out all their investments in the company. if the other members can pay for it, then they can in essence by the other members shares. It's not a public company, so there aren't any made up number of shares in the company. We each invest in the company, and that gets recorded in our agreement as to how much of the company (in a %) that other member owns. If we do a distribution of company funds, say we decide to take out 10% of the companies profits to pay ourselves, then that 10% would get divided up amongst the members based on the amount of ownership
 
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