"It Worked Before"

[INIX]

Hello,
OK so I had this customer come in with this 5 year old computer that had viruses on it. He didn't want a nuke and pave because he has software on the pc that he cannot replace.
We checked the pc in and performed our routine virus removal (manual & Scans) tested PC and things looked solid. Installed Kaspersky A/V and updated - no issues.

Customer picked up the PC and went home and did a full scan w/ the Kaspersky we installed. It found 2 infections in some of his legacy software directories. He called us back and he wanted to bring back in the PC for rework. N/P re-checked in PC and removed the 2 infections that were found with Kaspersky. This time he wanted his C:\ cloned to a 1.5TB drive to be installed, and remove the original hard drive for storage in his safety deposit box. N/P Done.

Customer picked up the PC yesterday (tested at front counter to his satisfaction). Now he calls this morning saying that his Adobe Photoshop states "Scratch Disks are Full".
I'm not exactly sure why he is getting this error now because all we did was remove infections, clone after clean, done. Customer said the classic line "It worked before". Adobe tech note states: Photoshop uses a scratch disk (temporary disk space used for storing data and performing computations) when there is insufficient RAM for image editing. When there is insufficient RAM and scratch disk space to perform image editing operations, Photoshop returns the error "Scratch disk is full.".

I am strongly leaning towards not messing with virus removal at all.
Not because i don't know how to remove them, or that i am not confident in my skills, but because the liability that is held over the shops head once that computer has been picked up. IMO you can be the master of virus removals and getting them off the machine, but that doesn't account for the damage the viruses may have done to the OS and the 3rd party apps. How many times have we all heard that classic line "it worked before". There is noway we can test every piece of software that is on the PC before check-out. Now the pc/issue is been looked at for the 3rd time on our dime.

I will be the first to admit we may have either missed the 2 infections on his PC or he got re-infected once he got home (i don't see how with Kaspersky being installed). This is very very rare for us, however we have all missed an infection in our time in this profession.
Even if we hadn't missed any and this Adobe issue occurred I guarantee you we would be held accountable, because "it worked before".

My point being (and it happens weekly) customer comes in has virus removed, calls back few days or a week later stating one of his apps or World of Warcraft add-on isn't working right and it has to be from the "virus".
Lets face it, we know our clients are scared of computers as it is, and when you are the last person that touched it, it automatically becomes your responsibility to fix.
It is the customers responsibility to ensure they have the proper licensed software and media (not ours) to install in-case of disaster. In our past 6 months in our retail shop and the past 2 years out of our home, it has become more apparent that it is more cost effective to Backup/Nuke/Pave/Import/Configure Image Backups not only for the customer but for the business. I have found that customers who get their PC back after having the viruses removed are still nervous about still being infected because the system has been compromised. Customers who have Nuke/Pave are still nervous but its because the majority of people hate change.

But then I think how much business will we lose?
But then I think how much money will we actually make if the customers are paranoid.
Virus removals can't really be warrantied? or can they?

Very frustrating situation this age old question of remove or Nuke.

 

[ATTech]

Before the indignant posts come in, questioning your authenticity of being a tech for simply considering N&P as an option for repair, perhaps there can be some amount of intelligent discussion...

That said, yes, this does happen, and it does suck to have to deal with people who expect everything, while expecting to pay nothing. My take on the matter is that it's important to try and judge the type of person as much as you can before recommending a removal or N&P, be this by current or past interactions. I have client's who I deal with that I do not remove malware for simply because of past experiences I have had with them being similar to what you described. I'm sure some people will come around saying to terminate with extreme prejudice, but to me, that's not good business.

When I get into these situation with new clients; I'll simply take care of what they ask to a reasonable degree. From then on, I don't offer services to them that can possible leave me in that situation again.

 

[mraikes]

Absolutely, virus removals are too big a risk. Send your customers to me instead.

Virus removals aren't/can't be warranted, but you were right to clean up the additional infections the customer found immediately after picking up his computer.

As far as viruses breaking some random software, that shouldn't be common. I do a lot of virus removals and it's rare a customer claims some unrelated program no longer works. And practically speaking it's beyond our ability to thoroughly test each and every client installed program to see if they do work correctly.

Since this appears to be a regular and ongoing problem for you, it makes me wonder about your processes. Review your removal procedures and make sure you're not being too aggressive in removing suspicious (but unknown) files & causing these problems yourself.

Investigate the client complaints, determine whether they really are virus removal related or are simply a coincidence, and respond accordingly.

Once you're confident these problems are not your fault, protect yourself by explaining to every customer the risks involved in any computer repair (including virus removal). They might lose some or all of their data, and programs might have to be reinstalled. How you'll try your best to avoid those problems, but they are possible.

 

[joydivision]

Tell him to reinstall his photoshop if he can't tell him you cannot warrant pirated software

If I find any pirated software on clients machines I simply tell them I cannot touch it.

I have lost a few business customers who run everything pirated as I let them know that I am not willing to support such software in a nice way

 

[Corbin]

For the Photoshop issue make a small Partition on the HDD and use that as a dedicated scratch disk for photoshop. *And do your basic HDD tune-up defrag, clean and what not. I personally have mine setup on a "internal flash drive" I have a USB on the inside of my machine.

But as for the being confident, I would suggest you go infect a few VMs and play with them clean them, maybe get a practice machine and just play with it on your down time. we have a ton of post here on the subject of using a VM as a playground.

Also a great thing to remember is that your the tech they went to, if you recommend something most people will do it. I have noticed when I personally deal with customers in retail and tech, if I say "I recommend the replacement plan", "I recommend the Avast", "I recommend you do this" they will do it.

Goodluck, Fix his machine and test it at the shop, I mean test test test dont let it comeback, you are now loosing money on the time you spent unfortunately.

EDIT:* I did read the part where you did a upgrade on the HDD, so a defrag and what not may not be needed, but it will not hurt.

 

[Xander]

While we can't rationally test every piece of software, it's good customer service (and responsible of us) to test the software we expect them to be using. If they have Word, I will make sure Word is working. Same would/should be true of any major softwares such as PS. Part of good business is good customer service and asking them how they primarily use their computer is a good step.

You should also be able to tell a customer that, if a virus has infected their computer to a certain point and they decline a reinstall, there's no way you can absolutely warrant your work. I've only had to pull out that card for a Virut infection after I saw no further traces of it but I really wanted to N&P but went with the customer's wish.... when I followed up with them a week later, all was fine. (Note: Follow-up in these circumstances is crucial)

As for pirated software, I'll certainly touch a machine with it on it but, if they don't have original CDs, I'm not putting it back on after.

I'll leave the depths of virus removal alone. I'm sure that'll get covered thoroughly by others.

 

[joydivision]

Don't get me wrong I won't refuse to say setup an email account on outlook if I didn't know the source but I will refuse to repair a pirated copy of Office.

 

[callthatgirl]

I'm not a fan of N&P at all for virus repair, but will if I must.

One thing to consider is changing your work orders for virus repair to state that you are not responsible for fixing software that was working before the virus hit. Also state that you cannot be liable for any software that didn't work after the repair done. Mostly because who knew if it worked prior to the virus? And...viruses attack and hit hard. We can't be responsible for that repair on top of the virus repair. Tell them that any after repairs are at your normal rate.

I think I will add that to my next batch of work orders.

Lisa

 

[ljtechservices]

I put this on my invoices for virus removal:

Service performed included Virus removal.
To the best of my knowledge and skill the computer is currently free of viruses and malware including malicious Browser redirects and trojan programs.
I cannot guarantee or warrant that this PC will stay virus free for any length of time.
Customer must continue to be diligent with updates and aware of what is being installed on the computer.

I usually have a discussion with them when i call them before pickup that some apps may be hosed and need to be reinstalled. I give them the option of having me reinstall or letting them do it. They've always said that they would do it.

 

[MobileTechie]

You should have scanned with the AV you just installed. I've been caught by this before and it's not good!

I always scan with KIS after installing it. I also install the latest updates from MS because I've learned that every now and again they plug the machine in back at home and an update messes up the PC and they think it's me.

If it was working before he gave it to you then what choice does he have other than to come back to you? You can't blame him for that.

Sounds like you might need to work on your hedging conversations a bit to cover yourself. If you cover it enough you should be able to reduce the comebacks.

 

[ATSCF]

My work order states that removing viruses may mess up other software and we are not responsible when it does. When it happens I just explain that viruses can mess alot of things up and we can not fix them without an extra charge to troubleshoot it.

If its something simple we fix it.

 

[Technotch]

Agree...

depending on the number of infections found, I always tell my clients that we would need to reinstall everything (N&P) if it happens again in a month (my service warranty). then I charge them extra for the data backup. its business.

I probably would have done the same thing as you did if your customer really don't want give up an old app. but then again, you can always try to convince them to use an alternative.

 

[Xander]

FWIW, I'll warrant against the same virus for 14 days but offer no warranty should a different virus show up.

Anyone likely to get infected once....

 

[Cybjun]

...He didn't want a nuke and pave because he has software on the pc that he cannot replace...

-I read this one sentence as "I have pirated software I can not re-install."

-To blanket Nuke & Pave as never an option is poor service in my opinion. I do find time when its in the clients best interest or in my best interest to offer it. That said Its RARELY my first option and I never do it with out covering how to restore installed applications to the machine. that said

What I would says is let me look at your photoshop settings and check what the scratch drive is set to he might of had it setup with the old drive one way that wasnt able to function after cloning to the larger hard drive. Really its a non-issue if its just correcting one setting.

I have a simple warranty virus removals 7 days / 7 ft. / or 7 minutes on the internet. (resently revisted). Any system that comes back with as a redo for virus or software related issues. I have a policy at my shop where I will only recheck for viruses, I hold no responsibility for installed applications, and if it gets re-infected with different virus my warranty tends to be N & P. Not because I cant fix it, but usually its because there is no acceptible fix for the client. I have about 2 or 3 of these a year.

When I work on a machine everything is on the table until I deem its not needed. Reloads, restores, manual removals or removals with scanners only. Every PC and every client is different. there is no point going line by line removing a virus from a PC that is literally only used to access webmail.

 

[Nomad Computer Repair]

I put this on my invoices for virus removal:


I usually have a discussion with them when i call them before pickup that some apps may be hosed and need to be reinstalled. I give them the option of having me reinstall or letting them do it. They've always said that they would do it.

I tell customers before I ever touch the machine that some data or programs may already be corrupt due to the virus. My work orders also state that by agreeing to service the customer acknowledges this fact.

 

[Corbin]

-I read this one sentence as "I have pirated software I can not re-install."

Not true at all, I have seen some machines like a local little league who uses a very very old piece of software to do sign-ups and keeps their whole league in order, that the people who created it went out of business like 4 years ago, and their is no way of getting the software license reset to set up on other machines. I have even put a offer in to donate a new system and upgrade them for free (tax write off).

The OP never said anything about Photoshop being the pirated piece, or as matter of fact if there was any pirated stuff at all. For all we know it couldn't have been the ultimate game of SimCity he didn't want to loose. Some people may not like the idea of killing a machine and resurrecting it.

 

[ATTech]

You can put whatever you want in your invoice agreement, ToS, etc. That might stop them from trying to sue you, but it's not going to stop them from wanting you to fix it for free. There is some disconnect between what the technician considers working, and the client considers working. You need to set the proper expectation before performing malware removal verbally, not on a piece of paper. Even then, some people will still complain. That's where I implement my method of sucking it up the first time, and selectively offering repair options subsequent times.

 

[JRDtechnet]

If this was a N&P, who installed Photoshop? If the customer installed photoshop then it should be his responsibility to make sure it was installed correctly. If you installed then it would be your responsibility to make sure it was installed and operating correctly. Now the obvious question, is it a legit version of Photoshop?

 

[Corbin]

If this was a N&P, who installed Photoshop? If the customer installed photoshop then it should be his responsibility to make sure it was installed correctly. If you installed then it would be your responsibility to make sure it was installed and operating correctly. Now the obvious question, is it a legit version of Photoshop?

This was not a n&p re-read the op its in the first half, the customer didn't want a n&p because he had stuff he wouldn't be able to get back software side. When that was said everyone assumed it was pirated stuff.

 

[ljtechservices]

You can put whatever you want in your invoice agreement, ToS, etc. That might stop them from trying to sue you, but it's not going to stop them from wanting you to fix it for free. There is some disconnect between what the technician considers working, and the client considers working. You need to set the proper expectation before performing malware removal verbally, not on a piece of paper. Even then, some people will still complain. That's where I implement my method of sucking it up the first time, and selectively offering repair options subsequent times.

excellent point.
And it goes with what the lawyer in my BNI group talked about this morning.
The gist of it was that you can sign, or have them sign anything but if your statement (verbal or written) and their perception doesn't line up, nothing is going to keep them from suing, threatening to sue or whatever to get satisfaction.