From the New York Times: The Chatbot Culture Wars Are Here

[britechguy]

The Chatbot Culture Wars Are Here

Apparently the base truth of the old saw, "Facts have a liberal bias," is not understood by far too many. [Hint: They don't. In reality, it's that liberals tend to traffic in factual information and get accused of being hopeless wonks because of this that generated that conventional observation. It's been true for as long as I've been alive, that's for sure.]

 

[frase]

Do not need political rhetoric on this forum.

 

[britechguy]

Do not need political rhetoric on this forum.

Sorry, but I'm not about to cut my conscience, or speech, to suit your restrictions.

I've really had it that certain members here seem to think that any comment, of any kind, of a political nature is verboten. It's not, and this article is not primarily political, though it sure as hell discusses politics as a significant feature.

 

[GTP]

We all have views and convictions, but Technibble's strength has always been its focus: helping tech professionals share knowledge and solve problems without the noise that derails other forums. Political opinions - even if well intentioned or tied to tech - tend to start flame wars, not productive discussions.

This isn’t about silencing conscience. It’s about keeping the signal-to-noise ratio high so we can all benefit. Let's stick to tech and keep it professional.

 

[britechguy]

@GTP,

While I understand what you're saying, I'm still saying, "No."

You want to be far more restrictive, as are several other members, about what qualifies as "political" than most people I know.

The article referenced is from a major US newspaper known as the newspaper of record and it contains information that is vital to know well beyond petty political considerations. It deserves to be communicated. I did so. There's been no flame war here, nor should there be.

The entire humor section should not exist, along with many other sidebars, were we consistently "sticking to tech." I'm not interested in being that restrictive.

We can, and do, assist each other regardless of political views of individual members. I don't expect anyone to perfectly sanitize themselves to suit me or to limit their personalities strictly to cold clinicality focused on technical issues. Much of what I enjoy on this site is that personalities do display themselves, pretty consistently, and everyone can and does behave like adults.

 

[frase]

@GTP,

While I understand what you're saying, I'm still saying, "No."

You want to be far more restrictive, as are several other members, about what qualifies as "political" than most people I know.

The article referenced is from a major US newspaper known as the newspaper of record and it contains information that is vital to know well beyond petty political considerations. It deserves to be communicated. I did so. There's been no flame war here, nor should there be.

The entire humor section should not exist, along with many other sidebars, were we consistently "sticking to tech." I'm not interested in being that restrictive.

We can, and do, assist each other regardless of political views of individual members. I don't expect anyone to perfectly sanitize themselves to suit me or to limit their personalities strictly to cold clinicality focused on technical issues. Much of what I enjoy on this site is that personalities do display themselves, pretty consistently, and everyone can and does behave like adults.

The New York Times and all main"scream" media are all propaganda, I do not take any of it "verbatim" or factual in any sense either way.
The humour section here is an outlet for people to unwind from all of what is insane in the world, a sub section for some to smile and find some sanity in our daily lives.

It is my view and I would suspect most here, though you may not care that this forum is for professional business users.
Political views have no place here; no matter what ones view is in the political sphere.

 

[Metanis]

Political views have no place here; no matter what ones view is in the political sphere.

With the advent of cancel culture, expressing any sort of personal opinion is likely to backfire in some unforseen way.

I've been guilty of posting political things on Technibble but quit that some months (years?) ago.

 

[frase]

Got my towel. Britech is simply a person who loves and thrives on attention, as all narcissists do.

 

[britechguy]

@frase,

No, I simply believe that the events of the day, as they pertain to tech, and particularly as they pertain to AI, are entirely appropriate for this venue.

That you don't is not relevant to me. That a couple of "repeat complainers" about this don't is not relevant to me, nor should it be.

The fact that certain events contain political elements is inescapable, but that doesn't mean that they are not relevant to a forum such as this one.

 

[Blues]

Wow this thread seems to have blow up to lots of over reactions. I haven't read the article yet. may not at all who knows, but from the title alone it seems tech related and potentially worth the read regardless of any political bias it may have. I see no issue sharing the article and if you have no faith in the entity behind it to provide fair and proper journalism you are free to move on or read and provide a civil rebuttal to any points you disagree with.

 

[Blues]

So I took a minute to skim through and read bits of it and I think the concern over potential bias is valid but I think a line from the article really sums up the crux of it in a way

Recently, Mr. Musk has lamented that A.I. systems have a liberal bias that is “tough to remove, because there is so much woke content on the internet.”

Take aside who specifically said it and which side of the aisle the speaker seems to view as the problem it still highlights a potential problem with trying to force AI into a true neutral position. The statement basically says if the AI model is based on the multitude of opinions, ideas, or "facts" found on the internet there is an inherent bias based on the popular bias of any topic. I will clarify I put facts in quotations not because of of any distrust in any specific category but because we have all come across intentional false answers online which any AI model can and likely will incorporate into its system. I recall the days of people being told online to fix a problem they should type "DELTREE C:\" as a "prank" to ruin peoples systems.

 

[britechguy]

@Blues

Perfect example. And whether one considers the content "woke" versus "MAGA" should not be the issue. It's whether something is factual, where cold, hard facts can be easily established, or based on expert opinion and evidence base available (or pure conjecture - AKA an educated guess) and identified as such.

There was a time, not all that long ago (though it is decades now) when the idea that there were facts, those facts could be known, and those are what serve as the basis for all legitimate discussion was held dear by virtually everyone.

It's always been possible for those of differing perspectives to come to divergent conclusions based on a set of shared facts, but the facts themselves were indeed shared. And that's what's been lost - the idea that facts have nothing to do with one's political or other perspectives. They are things that exist independent of the conclusions one might draw in relation to them.

That's a huge part of what that article is about. It's also a huge part of what get called "The Culture Wars" is about.

Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and prevented by force. Evil always leaves behind a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one's prejudgment are simply not believed — in such moments the stupid person becomes critical and when facts are irrefutable, they are just pushed aside as inconsequential. In all this, the stupid person is self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous. For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one.
~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison

I prefer true but imperfect knowledge, even if it leaves much undetermined and unpredictable, to a pretense of exact knowledge that is likely to be false.
~ F.A. Hayek