Component level repair.
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anglian
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Hi I've got a question for everyone.
Is anyone familiar in component level repair on motherboards?
If so could you tell me what tools you use and some tips and tricks?
I'm trying to get my foot in the door with this type of work.
Thanks
I have replaced a few capacitors and occasionly reflow / reball (just about to try a reflow on a DV6) Most mobo work is DC jacks.
Get an old but working mobo, remove a few components and refit them, then see if it still works
There are plenty of good videos on youtube that you can learn from, then practise, practise & more practise is the way to goThanks for the advice
I've been looking into re-balling but I can't find a respectable seller for the stencils. Any advice on where to get the stencils? I already have the rest of the equipment required. Also do I need a special kind of stencil for lead solder?
Thanks
I've been looking into re-balling but I can't find a respectable seller for the stencils. Any advice on where to get the stencils? I already have the rest of the equipment required. Also do I need a special kind of stencil for lead solder?
Thanks
anglian
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I get stencils from eBay, then just cut them up and customise them as needed. Make sure to get a high quality no-clean solder paste, it makes life a lot easier.Thanks for the advice
I've been looking into re-balling but I can't find a respectable seller for the stencils. Any advice on where to get the stencils? I already have the rest of the equipment required. Also do I need a special kind of stencil for lead solder?
Thanks
Larry Sabo
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If you have any electronics training, the "In To Deep" blog will be helpful for diagnosis and repair of motherboards. For guidance on reflowing/reballing, see the excellent CVX forum for game console repair fans.
kisk
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I would love to get into this too. I called around and didn't any competitors in my area that do any type of reballing. Would something like this work well? I don't want to spend a lot, but I also don't want to have to buy something better later because its specs aren't good enough. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-REWORK-...886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256c4c5956
I know this would be fine for jack repairs, but with it's specs, could I do full reball repairs (lets say a dv6000 gpu reball) with the right attachments?
Thanks!
I know this would be fine for jack repairs, but with it's specs, could I do full reball repairs (lets say a dv6000 gpu reball) with the right attachments?
Thanks!
I can't remember seeing more than one or two mobos out of thousands worth fixing with bad caps. Reflowing is a joke - if it failed from a factory, shooting hot air at it isnt going to be reliable. Reballing is too expensive for the right tools + time spent to bother, and I still don't trust it as a solid repair. Laptops with a failed bga are a flawed design and will most likely fail again in the near feature, even with shims.
Like PCX said in another thread, if you can't guarantee the repair, is it worth risking your name?
And if you think I'm wrong, don't buy the cheapest thing you can find. When we were contemplating Reflowing/Reballing we were looking at stations in the 2-4 grand range.
Like PCX said in another thread, if you can't guarantee the repair, is it worth risking your name?
And if you think I'm wrong, don't buy the cheapest thing you can find. When we were contemplating Reflowing/Reballing we were looking at stations in the 2-4 grand range.
Motherboards are made up of several layers, usually 4 or 6 depending on the complexity of the design. Could possibly be more than 6 now?
These layers carry interconnecting tracks which are connected by "vias'", the small plated through holes on each side of the motherboard.
Without the aid of a circuit diagram it is nigh on impossible to trace a particular voltage or signal along its' intended path. It is also extremely difficult to source a diagram.
I have had limited success with motherboard repairs and I was in the tv repair trade for 30 years. My most recent success, an HP Probook 4525S, was a complete stroke of luck.
The jack socket would flash amber 8/9 times and nothing else. The 19v input was present so I started taking voltage readings at various points and found it again at a resistor. My probe accidentally made contact with a nearby transistor and the jack socket went a nice solid blue.
There was a dry joint on the transistor which was invisible with the naked eye. The accidental contact could easily have went the other way though and I could then have been looking for 2 faults.
These layers carry interconnecting tracks which are connected by "vias'", the small plated through holes on each side of the motherboard.
Without the aid of a circuit diagram it is nigh on impossible to trace a particular voltage or signal along its' intended path. It is also extremely difficult to source a diagram.
I have had limited success with motherboard repairs and I was in the tv repair trade for 30 years. My most recent success, an HP Probook 4525S, was a complete stroke of luck.
The jack socket would flash amber 8/9 times and nothing else. The 19v input was present so I started taking voltage readings at various points and found it again at a resistor. My probe accidentally made contact with a nearby transistor and the jack socket went a nice solid blue.
There was a dry joint on the transistor which was invisible with the naked eye. The accidental contact could easily have went the other way though and I could then have been looking for 2 faults.
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Larry Sabo
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The best source for laptop schematics I've found is laptopschematics.com. Downloadable and very reasonably priced. If you wander around the "In Too Deep" blog I mentioned earlier you'll find that schematics are not even necessary in most cases, if you have enough training/experience troubleshooting electronics at the component level. The most common causes of problems are shorted/open mosfets, diodes, capacitors and coils -- which can be diagnosed with a DVM and LRC meter, neither of which is expensive. If you don't have much or any electronics training, All About Circuits may be helpful.
Larry Sabo
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I think you'll find that the end of the heat tube on that unit is slightly small for the standard nozzles used for BGA rework, requiring an adapter that you need to make up yourself. This W.E.P. unit has the right sized heat tube end and it fits the standard and commonly available Hakko-style nozzles perfectly. One problem with these, is the unit has a magnetic switch that senses when the hand-held unit is removed from the cradle and turns on/off the unit. I added a switch to mine so I can over-ride that switch, as described in a post on the CVX game console repair site. (I'll add a link on how to do this later if I can find it.) That switch lets you keep the unit off while you mount it in a stand, which is another essential. There is an excellent thread in the CVX forum on how to do reballing with inexpensive equipment, and yes, it is possible. (I'll add that link later, too, when I find it.) Another essential, is a preheater. You can modify a Presto griddle to use a Rex PID controller for a cheap solution, or just buy a T-8280 IR preheater. It costs around $200 and works well by all accounts. The cheapest commercially made uints you can buy that are up to the job, cost around $1200 USD, as you'll find by reading the CVX forum mentioned. Oh, you will also probably need a 110v to 220v transformer or to have a 220v line installed to handle the power required. Don't forget about flux, solder balls, stencils, stencil-holding jig, solder wick, safety mask+filters, K-type thermocouples and temperature meter....
Have fun, but don't expect to make your money back, given the high cost of entry, learning time, and diminishing BGA repair market demand. Also expect many returns until you do enough units to get the process perfected with your equipment and environmental conditions.
Edit: Here's the CVX thread that contains very helpful advice about starting up on the cheap: Cheapest reflow/Reball equipment with pro results . It has 53 pages so far, so lots of reading!
Edit: Here's the link on the mod required to the nozzle if you buy the unit you posted earlier: http://forums.cvxgameconsolerepair.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2429&start=42. The mod to the unit to disable the magnetic switch is on the page that follows it.
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kisk
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I've heard a few places that will actual use a lead-based solder in their reballing process to make a [more permanent] fix since lead-based solder has a higher melting temp. Not sure what type of solder is originally used on these boards.
I'm not too worried about this as I would have the work contracted to me from local shops. These techs would understand what we're dealing with and the possibility of future failure.
Not to mention the market for xbox & ps3 repairs on my area, this is something I would at least like to be able to do.
Before I started with computers I was building and designing circuit boards for everything from remote control cars to robotics that I entered in competitions. So tracing wires and that sort of stuff I can do with ease.
And also to the person who said its not worth risking your name (I don't know how to do 2 quotes in the same message) What happens is people bring in they're laptops with bad mobo's And we quote them a price on what it would cost for us to out source the work and then they give us the laptop and go out and buy a new one and tell us we can do whatever we like with the old one.
So I was just considering reballing them and seeing how many of them I can use.
I wouldn't do it as a service as I don't work on anything I can't guarantee
kisk
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So I was just considering reballing them and seeing how many of them I can use.
This too! I have a lot of dv boards here that a simple reflow would not work on, so whats the harm in learning a new skill and possibly selling the refurbished board on eBay. I wouldn't be too concerned about eBay rep, but considering the board cost me nothing, a guarantee/refund policy wouldn't be too far fetched.
I never said I doubted your skill and if it did sound like it I did not mean it that way.
All I'am saying is I can and have traced circuits through a motherboard. I'm not saying I can do it %100 of the time or that I can even trace it through the whole motherboard.
Sorry about that
Martyn
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Will you start your own thread about this please?
rsarceno
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When it comes to SMD and soldering iron, it always recommended to go with well known brand names like Aoyue and Weller. The Aoyue 968A only sells for $160 at Amazon. You might want to take a look at it.
Larry Sabo
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I would not recommend the Aoyue 968A -- it suffers badly from uneven heat distribution that makes its use for hot air BGA work unsatisfactory. Just Google "Aoyue 968A uneven heat" to confirm. The W.E.P. and similar units is designed to spin the air as it exits the nozzle, greatly reducing the problem.
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