Back to basics frustrations (W2K to W2K)...

[brettjameslive]

Okay, so I feel like I've gone back over a decade and am pulling my hair out over what should be such a basic networking issue.

I have a client who had 2 PC's running Windows 2000 Pro (yes, I know! they are POS custom builds, the company that made them, and the software has gone bust, and replacement hard, and software will run into many thousands of £'s/$'s - not an option right now), which need to be able to 'see' one another. Until recently, they could, until one day the Netgear switch into which they were plugged, went pop. This was replaced, and didn't solve the issue. However, replacing the 2 x cables also, made the expected lights spring back to life.

PC1 has the name 'hqipos' and has been give a static IP of 192.168.0.1, subnet mask 255.255.255.0 no other fields set.

PC2 has the name 'till01', static IP x.2 rest the same.

Both are a member of 'WORKGROUP'. There is NO internet connection or need for external access, just communication between the 2.

I cannot get the 2 machines to even ping one another! Least of all browse to '\\till01\' or further.

When selecting 'computers near me' within 'network connections' each machine will only see itself (once PC1 listed both, but clicking on Till01 displayed the error 'network resource or destination unreachable' or similar).

This is pre-XP so I can't see a security centre or firewall option anywhere, no AV software.

It's been a long long time since I had to network anything pre-XP and am just wondering if any of you can get the grey cells going to tell me if I am missing something obvious?!

Many thanks

Edit: It occurred to me that the actual NW cards in the machines may be damaged (after all, why did the switch and cables need replacing - although W2K is listing these as working ok) so I have ordered 2 more.

 

[SilverLeaf]

...........snip

Edit: It occurred to me that the actual NW cards in the machines may be damaged (after all, why did the switch and cables need replacing - although W2K is listing these as working ok) so I have ordered 2 more.

I suspect this may be the issue as well. Whatever took out the switch could have cascaded down the line.

 

[jbartlett323]

No gateway set? Networking doesn't always work without a gateway. You can set this to a random IP if you don't want internet access, but pretty sure TCP/IP isn't happy without it... DNS servers should also be set manually, but not required or needed.

And yeah, replace those NIC's, they prolly popped too....

 

[brettjameslive]

Tried setting Gateway and DNS on both machines to no avail. I guess I could set these to 192.168.0.100 without it mattering that the IP doesn't exist on the network!? This didn't work before.

NIC's are being delivered tomorrow. Fingers crossed!...

 

[seedubya]

This is almost definitely one or more faulty NICs. Try booting them to a couple of Puppy Linux CDs just to be sure. BTW, did you try hooking up a laptop and pinging each of them from there?

 

[SAG]

Being in the same Workgroup isn't necessary, that's just a structural thing for network browsing... just so you know.

First thing's first - the easy tests.
Can the machines ping themselves?
Can they ping each other with a crossover cable connection? Yeah, take the switch out of the equation.
If the crossover method fails, it's almost definitely a HW issue... barring some really nasty TCP stuff.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

A gateway is not needed for workgroup/peer to peer communications, a gateway only tells the host how to find the exit ramp of this highway to get to another highway (how to leave the network to get to another network). Communications between nodes of 192.168.0.xxx does not need a gateway.

Do not need to be members of the same workgroup either...that is a myth. Computers still find each other via ping or start..run \\computername or start run \\ipaddress.
Same workgroup only means they're on the top visual layer of My Network Places...you can still drill into other workgroups through there.

"Enable netbios over IP" deep in the advanced properties wins tab of tcp/ip. Without a local DNS service or WINS service..this helps local browsing.

Ping by IP yes no?
Ping by host name yes no?

Possible faulty switch, possibly faulty NIC, possible faulty patch cables.
Windows 2000 vintage so probably no gigabit NICs...so you'd need a crossover cable for direct connection (of course if at least 1 of them has a gigabit NIC a crossover cable would not be needed...as part of the gigabit standard is auto MDI-X for ports).

Rebuild network stack.

 

[brettjameslive]

Okay, had a look at the end of last week, so apologies for the delay in reply.

I have now got both machines on my desk (asked my friend to pull them out of the shop!) and have them on a simple network, i.e. 2 patch leads, plugged into a switch that I use (so I KNOW it works).

Deleted all DNS/Gateway stuff as directed and 'BOOM' they talk!

SO, the only thing that MAY be causing a problem when we plug it all back in ion the shop, (which is the only niggling doubt), and the only thing that is a marked difference, is that the cat5 cable that connects the downstairs machine to the hub is HUGE. I mean like, maybe 50 meters long. But this shouldn't cause an issue should it?

I remember initially before the end of last week, one ping from one machine to another received a reply at attempt 1 and 4 (i.e. it dropped 2 & 3 with 'no reply'), and the ping times that DID work, were like, really large numbers (128ms or similar).

Is it possible that the cable is too long and it's timing out?? The existing cable worked for years, then I replaced it with an admittedly longer one....?

 

[brettjameslive]

And yes they pinged (even in the shop) their loopback addresses, but not eachother (properly - as described above)...

 

[JustInspired]

Is the cable home made? The max length should be 100 meters. If it's not damaged or poorly terminated it should be fine. Unless it's running next to some really bad source of interference like a Tesla coil.

 

[SAG]

50 meters is about half the max_safe_length of a good quality Cat5 cable with no EMI issues.

My money is on bad cable or loose terminals.


Did you say "hub"??