Anyone ever seen this error upon PIN entry?

[britechguy]

This is an entirely new one on me. I have no other information other than a machine I set up yesterday is doing this on the lock screen:



I will recommend that they set up the PIN again, but would still like to know if anyone else has had this occur and what, if anything, can be done to prevent it.

 

[Porthos]

I will recommend that they set up the PIN again, but would still like to know if anyone else has had this occur and what, if anything, can be done to prevent it.

Seen a BIOS update with device encryption on do this.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yes, this is what happens when the encryption key associated with the pin can no longer unlock the TPM module. It's akin to a bitlocker recovery event, just PIN based.

And yes, now you have to authenticate using a primary means (password / FIDO2 key), and recreate the PIN to fix the enrollment.

 

[britechguy]

@Porthos,

Definitely no BIOS update unless it happened in the last 24 hours, which is doubtful. I was setting up 2 Dell DC15250 laptops, side-by-side, for a father and his daughter. It's the father's machine that did this.

@Sky-Knight, I have already recommended that they log in with the Password, remove the PIN, and then reboot and re-create the PIN after logging in again with the password. Thanks, though, for this tip.

 

[phaZed]

That's when I usually see it, during a firmware update. I suppose there's likely a small variety of other "security" reasons that the Pin # could be revoked via the online MS account.

 

[HCHTech]

now you have to authenticate using a primary means (password / FIDO2 key)

Client's response: "No, I don't have a password, I just use this PIN to log in". Extra bonus points if they used Windows hello and actually DON'T have a password (rare, but it happens). I swear, if we took "resetting passwords" out of our daily jobs, we'd go bankrupt.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Client's response: "No, I don't have a password, I just use this PIN to log in". Extra bonus points if they used Windows hello and actually DON'T have a password (rare, but it happens). I swear, if we took "resetting passwords" out of our daily jobs, we'd go bankrupt.

I haven't reset a password in years.

Self Service password reset means the users do that for themselves. The most I do is push a button to make a TAP for people that forgot their phone / broke it.

For everyone else... they get this now:

Support Guidelines for Personal Microsoft Accounts​

1. Understand the Account Ownership Personal Microsoft accounts are managed solely by the user. I do not have access to account details such as email addresses or passwords.
2. Account Recovery Responsibility If account recovery is needed, please use Microsoft’s official recovery methods. Frequent changes to associated phone numbers or contact info can complicate this process, so keeping them current is important.
3. Device Issues and Solutions If your device only has one user account and you cannot access it, the best solution may be to reset the device to factory settings. After this, you will need to set up a new account.
4. Data Backup Reminder Personal files are the user’s responsibility to back up. Without backups, data loss may occur during device resets or troubleshooting.
5. Handling Concerns and Feedback I understand that this can be frustrating, but I encourage careful management of personal account information to avoid these situations.

And yet, I have PLENTY of work.

 

[britechguy]

No, I don't have a password, I just use this PIN to log in

At this point any client of mine who's not brand new knows better than ever to say to me, "I don't have a password." One of my standard discussions with any new client, and particularly if we set up a new account of some kind or have to do a password reset is the, "Your password is the failsafe key to your kingdom. When all else fails, that's what you'll be asked for, so you had better have it logged somewhere, somehow, that you can find it when you don't have access to your computer."

I try to get folks to use a password manager that's cross platform, but if they can't/won't, then an account/password logbook stored somewhere safe is what I tell them to do. And I emphasize that if ever they change a password, they need to update that logbook.

 

[timeshifter]

@Sky-Knight, I have already recommended that they log in with the Password, remove the PIN, and then reboot and re-create the PIN after logging in again with the password. Thanks, though, for this tip.

You recommended it, but did they try it and it didn't work?

 

[HCHTech]

I haven't reset a password in years.

We still have 40% of our business with residential customers. That's where this mostly applies.

The most I do is push a button to make a TAP for people that forgot their phone / broke it.

Well, even with commercial customers, you have to log into the tenant, find the user, create the TAP and then communicate it to them by email or text. It's a little more than pushing a button. Self-service password reset has largely removed this problem from the commercial side of our business, though - to your point.

However, to MY point, M365 is only one of the many things people have passwords for and then forget at some point.

 

[britechguy]

You recommended it, but did they try it and it didn't work?

I have no idea, as there's been no follow-up communication from them. But, when it comes to problems where solutions have been offered, my assumption is "no news is good news." Most clients don't get back to me and say, "That worked," when it could not be tried while I am on a phone call with them.

 

[Sky-Knight]

We still have 40% of our business with residential customers. That's where this mostly applies.



Well, even with commercial customers, you have to log into the tenant, find the user, create the TAP and then communicate it to them by email or text. It's a little more than pushing a button. Self-service password reset has largely removed this problem from the commercial side of our business, though - to your point.

However, to MY point, M365 is only one of the many things people have passwords for and then forget at some point.

Sure, but why have we allowed ourselves to be responsible for all of that? If you think about it, it's never been rational.

Still, if the customer is willing to pay for the time, hey I'm there too. But that's what happened on my side. You want my help as a residential client to chase down poorly documented credentials? You're swiping a CC for 4 hours of my life to even get started. Did wonders to cut those calls down, and the calls that I do get are the real ones. I'll take those all day, but I'm just done with dealing with cheap people behaving cheaply. I'll push a mop if that's what it takes for the right customer! I literally do not care what I'm doing, if the customer wants it. What I care about is my ability to feed my kids, because when you're selling hours, there's only so many of those in a day! They go to the highest bidder!

But I suppose I wasn't fair when I said I hadn't reset a password in years. I have, I just tend to direct efforts that result in resetting passwords on entire tenants at a time. And in most cases, it's to remove the passwords entirely. Because at the end of the day, passwords STILL SUCK!