Any Experts at Repairing Old Win95 Installs?

DataMedics

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So I've got a client with an old piece of equipment. The drive failed, but we were able to recover 99.999% of the data. The only critical file that I know we didn't get a full read of is the Windows registry file, but fortunately, we were able to repair it using sectors pulled from the last backup of it (fingers crossed).

Reinstalling Windows isn't an option as there's some proprietary software on there and the company who made it is MIA now. So they have no way to reinstall the software on a new install. Thus, nuke and pave is out of the question.

I'm really hoping the clone we made of the drive will boot the machine, but in case it doesn't are any of you experts at troubleshooting situations where you must repair an existing Windows install?
 
Do you have the 5 files that make up the windows registry?

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Whatever the software is, I would think it is old enough to cleanly use just a small portion of the Registry. If you have the registry files, why not mount copies of them in Regedit and exportl HKLM\Software\MIACompany or whatever as well as for HKCU keeping in mind Win95 really had only one use with most logins.

At that point, why not test it on the current version of Windows or latest 32-bit version? Copy all the application and data files. Whatever use account that is going to run it, make sure they have Administrative rights, and while that user is logged in import the .reg file for HKCU, so it goes into the current logged on users registry. Then commit the HKLM being an Administrator it should just work.

At that point run the program. If it is goofed up, use the Sysinternals toolset to see what it is trying to read that is missing, export and import it... retry etc.

Might try messing with compatibility mode, too.

At any rate, this will take some messing around, but there is at least a 50% chance it can be made to work at least if this thing doesn't use driver files for communicating to something like a CNC machine. If that is the case, I wish you all the luck in the world.

If all else fails, can you find another program that does the exact same thing but is still supported?
 
Assuming you can find a drive with similar geometry and you can clone back the various boot files I don't think you'll have any trouble. I would spam the F8 key at boot though and boot into safe mode first, then check/clear any hardware related errors before rebooting normally. If the only hardware change was the drive and that is replaced in-kind you should be OK. I wonder how difficult it is to find those old hard drives? Hopefully they didn't do anything with dblspace or drvspace!
 
At any rate, this will take some messing around, but there is at least a 50% chance it can be made to work at least if this thing doesn't use driver files for communicating to something like a CNC machine. If that is the case, I wish you all the luck in the world.

I'm sure it is using some type of drivers to communicate with the machine. It's a pretty high tech machine that does vaccuum metallurgy coating (like holograms). Only two of these machines were ever built, the other one is in Germany and the company has refused to share an image of the HDD in their machine.

Anyway, they're putting our clone with the rebuilt registry file back in this morning. So we'll soon find out if it worked. I was actually more looking for someone who might want to remotely try to help these guys if it doesn't work. My contract ends at recovering the data from the failed drive. We rebuild the registry file just as a courtesy to give it the best shot at booting.

@NETWizz you seem to be pretty knowledgable about this stuff. If they need the help, would you be interested in some paid remote work for them? (they're willing to pay generously to get this back up ASAP)
 
They were just in C:\Windows, and prior copies had a .000 at the end. Hidden.
Slave the drive, unhide, make copies...and then do the rename swap.
If I remember, just 2 of 'em, user and system.
95 didn't have the cool new tool that 98 had, "ScanReg".
 
Also, once it's back up and running, pull the drive and make backup images, possibly using several different packages. Put each on an external HD (CD? DVD? USB Flash? Probably also on 2-3 IDE HDs, and a couple of boot floppies with an old version of Ghost) along with the installer for the program used and images of the boot floppies as well. If the client balks at spending a few hundred $$ on this, ask them how much it will cost to replace that whole piece of equipment next time.

Honestly if I were serving them I think I'd also be scouring ebay for 2-3 identical old PCs to have on hand as well, because they and compatible old hard drives aren't going to get any easier to find. If possible, clone everything onto each of the machines and test, then label the machines very very clearly so they don't get discarded and store them. Put notes about where the backups are stored on the side of the production box.
 
I'd use a combination of a program called DriverDoubler or DoubleDriver and an old copy of LapLink PC-Mover. They're both pretty old and should work with Windows 95. I've been able to copy over specialized software and drivers using software like this in the past.
 
Also, once it's back up and running, pull the drive and make backup images, possibly using several different packages. Put each on an external HD (CD? DVD? USB Flash? Probably also on 2-3 IDE HDs, and a couple of boot floppies with an old version of Ghost) along with the installer for the program used and images of the boot floppies as well. If the client balks at spending a few hundred $$ on this, ask them how much it will cost to replace that whole piece of equipment next time.

Honestly if I were serving them I think I'd also be scouring ebay for 2-3 identical old PCs to have on hand as well, because they and compatible old hard drives aren't going to get any easier to find. If possible, clone everything onto each of the machines and test, then label the machines very very clearly so they don't get discarded and store them. Put notes about where the backups are stored on the side of the production box.


Good Afternoon. Good luck with all that external HD, USB, Flash etc. Windows 95 doesn't support any of that. It probably supports at best an MBR partitioned, FAT32 formatted, IDE drive with 32-bit LBA addressing certainly not to exceed 137 GB.
 
I'm sure it is using some type of drivers to communicate with the machine. It's a pretty high tech machine that does vaccuum metallurgy coating (like holograms). Only two of these machines were ever built, the other one is in Germany and the company has refused to share an image of the HDD in their machine.

Anyway, they're putting our clone with the rebuilt registry file back in this morning. So we'll soon find out if it worked. I was actually more looking for someone who might want to remotely try to help these guys if it doesn't work. My contract ends at recovering the data from the failed drive. We rebuild the registry file just as a courtesy to give it the best shot at booting.

@NETWizz you seem to be pretty knowledgable about this stuff. If they need the help, would you be interested in some paid remote work for them? (they're willing to pay generously to get this back up ASAP)


Thanks for the plug. Honestly, I would leave it at where your contract ends if I were on this one. It certainly cannot hurt that you went above and beyond providing customer service to to fix the registry to give it a shot at booting.The danger is if they expect you to somehow warrant your work. I guess the good thing is the Windows 95 Registry is a bit smaller than most, so it is more likely to work.


At any rate, this is really not the type of project I take on. I do not like supporting PCs of any kind including my own. I like dealing with computers owned by other people even less. This special purpose rig running a 24 year old copy of Windows is ancient. When I first started working with my primary source of income being from IT back in 2004, we were getting rid of the last Windows 98SE machines where I worked. I haven't even seen a Windows 9x box since probably 2006. I did used to actively support them though, and they are just stripped-down, simplified versions of Windows.

I would rater recover a bricked Cisco switch where someone deleted the IOS while also forgetting the password. Honestly, when it comes to Windows, I only ever fix my stuff now, and often that waits six months to a year. My GF was complaining about a laptop jack being broken on an old Dell 15 laptop from 2011. I kept saying I was going to fix it. Well I finally fixed it when she came home with a $450 estimate from the local big-box store... and only because I was either fix it it or paying someone else to fix it.

******

This kind of work, you need someone who can show up on-site in my opinion. They probably need to spend hours reading any binders of documentation, looking at old software, researching the net etc. Probably would be making images of the HDD before trying anything or attempting to migrate it.

The real problem is that it probably uses VXD or other old-school drivers that primarily use Real-Mode instead of Protected-Mode memory. Simply put, the modern NT variants of Windows have a Hardware Abstraction Layer and protected-memory to ensure you can only talk to hardware through various APIs.

Now perhaps the software is written correctly on this and uses a native Windows API for say the serial port. Chances are good plugging in a USB serial port and configuring it to be on the proper COM port in device manager would allow it to still work with old code using those APIs, but if it decides to talk directly to the hardware, it is simply not going to work on any NT flavored Windows.
 
Good luck with all that external HD, USB, Flash etc. Windows 95 doesn't support any of that.

That's why I threw in the note about backups onto IDE drives and keeping some floppies around as well. The external USB drives would be for use on a more-modern system that could blow an image back onto hard drives, not for use in the original system.

Somewhere in my old posts on here there's the story of a client who was running Medical Manager on a Win95 or Win98 (not SE) box, with a crossover network cable going up to a checkin desk PC, a direct-connect printer and backups (supposedly) going to a parallel-port connected tape drive. First time I was in there, before I did ANYTHING else on the box I wanted to take a look at the backups and make sure they were good. Pop a tape in and try to read it, immediate full lockup of the system. I'm pretty positive they hadn't had a successful backup in years. Called back down to our office "Hey, can you go check the server room or recycle area for any old IDE drives, as small as possible? I'm not touching this until I can make a backup or two of it onto something."

I don't recall a lot of details beyond that except that I set up a quarter-ass backup setup for them with some batch files that copied basically the entire Medical Manager directory excluding online documentation up to the front desk machine, then burned the whole thing to a CD every night. Excluding the documentation kept it small enough for one CD. Long before HIPAA or anything like it, though I think I had it set up to zip and password protect the file being dumped to the CD.
 
I still support a few Windows 98, Windows 95, and even pure MS-DOS computers in the field. They have specialized, specific purposes that just can't be replicated without replacing the entire system. For example, I have a client that runs the phone system for an entire business complex off of an old MS-DOS box. It's a 286. No idea what it's other specs are. The guy that wrote the software died in 1992 or 1993 and the only way to replace it is to replace the entire phone system, and the cost to replace all that stuff is into the 6 figures.

I have another client that owns a fast food joint and he still uses an MS-DOS computer. It runs his whole damn business. Another client of mine has really expensive embroidery machines that will only run on Windows 95. The drivers won't even work with Windows 98, let alone any operating system from the 20th century.

I also have a few clients that just can't or won't let go of old operating systems. I have one guy that still uses an MS-DOS word processor. He's really old and could never learn Microsoft Office so he just stayed where he was. Some of my clients just want to keep the old computer running for nostalgia purposes. They have their original Family Tree program on it and although they have the data backed up, they still want to use the old version and boot up the old computer every once in a while to check it out.

I use Windows 95/98 on a weekly/daily basis. I still actively support it. Granted, I'd never recommend anything but Windows 10 to every normal person that comes through my door, but someone has to support those that still need to use old systems and software. I have the skills and the desire so it might as well be me.
 
I still support a few Windows 98, Windows 95, and even pure MS-DOS computers in the field. They have specialized, specific purposes that just can't be replicated without replacing the entire system. For example, I have a client that runs the phone system for an entire business complex off of an old MS-DOS box. It's a 286. No idea what it's other specs are. The guy that wrote the software died in 1992 or 1993 and the only way to replace it is to replace the entire phone system, and the cost to replace all that stuff is into the 6 figures.

I have another client that owns a fast food joint and he still uses an MS-DOS computer. It runs his whole damn business. Another client of mine has really expensive embroidery machines that will only run on Windows 95. The drivers won't even work with Windows 98, let alone any operating system from the 20th century.

I also have a few clients that just can't or won't let go of old operating systems. I have one guy that still uses an MS-DOS word processor. He's really old and could never learn Microsoft Office so he just stayed where he was. Some of my clients just want to keep the old computer running for nostalgia purposes. They have their original Family Tree program on it and although they have the data backed up, they still want to use the old version and boot up the old computer every once in a while to check it out.

I use Windows 95/98 on a weekly/daily basis. I still actively support it. Granted, I'd never recommend anything but Windows 10 to every normal person that comes through my door, but someone has to support those that still need to use old systems and software. I have the skills and the desire so it might as well be me.

Can you clone the drive in the old 286 dos box? I've never tried on anything that old. If it was that critical to their business I'd be scared everyday that they'd call on the inevitable day it breaks lol. I figured you already got a couple other boxes ready to go with it or something.

I talked with someone a month or 2 ago that was using a program called wordstar 2000. Never even heard of it until I researched it lol.
 
So I heard back from the client that my clone was able to boot the machine and they're now back up and running. So I guess plugging in the lost sectors from the last backup of the registry file was enough to resolve the issue. So now they don't need any more help.

I'm making them a second clone to keep in a safe place should this ever happen again.

Thanks to all for the great suggestions. :)
 
Wow - great result. Charge a LOT. Put a note on that 2nd clone to bill 5X normal rates if they ever need it. :)

Actually, the second clone was for them to keep in a safe place. While it is super easy to price gouge in the data recovery business (no shortage of desperate people), it's not the model I prefer to follow.
 
While it is super easy to price gouge in the data recovery business

Well perhaps "gouge" is a strong word, but there is a happy medium somewhere that relates to the relative value of the skillset required for a successful outcome. I am merely suggesting that in this particular case, your skillset had great value to the client.
 
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