[REQUEST] Urgent: Windows 7 on HP ProDesk 400

[Computer Bloke]

I'm also wondering what software runs on Win7 that won't run on Win10.

a LOB application that's only supported on Win 7x86

It's possible that it's a 16-bit application, in which case it's the 64-bitness of Windows 10 that's causing the problem not the Windows 10iness itself. Practically any 32-bit program that runs on Windows 7 will run in compatibility mode on 64-bit Windows 10; literally no 16-bit programs will.

Which leads to another possible workaround - can you downgrade Windows 10 to a 32-bit version and run the LOB in compatibility mode? I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it's an idea all the same.

 

[NviGate Systems]

This is an excellent example of how simple things can trip us up. I can't say exactly the cause or reasons behind the selection of this specific machine, but I would caution techs from allowing clients to "take over the situation" by dropping catchphrases like "critical" etc.

I've dealt with companies like this before, and most are nice enough that once they stop panicking and let me work a solution for them, all is good. I'm a little rusty on all the latest platforms and what is and isn't supported etc. So I would probably run into the same issue. But I do know to check for it, hence I always ask my sales guy which platform a machine is and double check what version of Windows we are dealing with.

Provided the vendor has 32-Bit drivers available if a LOB app needs to be run on 32 bit. If it's a server app you can actually get away with no drivers and a usb ethernet if it really comes down to it. As long as the damned app runs and has a connection.

 

[seedubya]

Though a VM would require a retail license for Windows 7. You can still find it online in some outlets.

Yes was downgrading, now will need to purchase a Windows 10 Pro and downgrade that instead.

Nothing should be going out with Win7 on it, it's dead in 2020.

Not my choice. The software vendor does not support Windows 10.

Intel didn't make chipset drivers for that old OS for that platform.

They do, actually or somebody does because they're available for that old OS from HP's support site.

I'm also wondering what software runs on Win7 that won't run on Win10, I've encountered almost none.

It's not a case of "won't run", it's a case of "not supported" i.e. no support if anything goes wrong.

 

[seedubya]

This is an excellent example of how simple things can trip us up. I can't say exactly the cause or reasons behind the selection of this specific machine, but I would caution techs from allowing clients to "take over the situation" by dropping catchphrases like "critical" etc.

I've dealt with companies like this before, and most are nice enough that once they stop panicking and let me work a solution for them, all is good. I'm a little rusty on all the latest platforms and what is and isn't supported etc. So I would probably run into the same issue. But I do know to check for it, hence I always ask my sales guy which platform a machine is and double check what version of Windows we are dealing with.

Provided the vendor has 32-Bit drivers available if a LOB app needs to be run on 32 bit. If it's a server app you can actually get away with no drivers and a usb ethernet if it really comes down to it. As long as the damned app runs and has a connection.

It was selected because it DOES specifically provide drivers for all hardware for Windows 7x86. That, however, doesn't work out in practice.

 

[Computer Bloke]

I can't get the keyboard and mouse working at all once it boots to the installation - no action at all. I've tried injecting the USB drivers but still nothing.

It was selected because it DOES DOESN'T specifically provide drivers for all hardware for Windows 7x86.

FTFY. HTH.

Would it not be simpler just to buy a suitable computer with Windows 7 preinstalled and use that instead? If we can still get them in NZ (which we can) then I'm sure you can still get them in Ireland.

The software vendor does not support Windows 10.

I'm sorry but I assumed that this was a legacy application.You should have told us that the software vendor was incompetent and complacent right at the start - then we could have asked what application was so vital that your client would put up with this nonsense and we might even have recommended a suitable alternative. Supplying an application that is only supported on an eight-year-old operating system is unforgiveable.

 

[seedubya]

FTFY. HTH.

Would it not be simpler just to buy a suitable computer with WIndows 7 preinstalled and use that instead? If we can still get them in NZ (which we can) then I'm sure you can still get them in Ireland.

Not with x86 pre-installed unfortunately. x64 are 10 a penny. Maybe a different supplier but when Techdata don't have it it's usually not to be had.

FTFY. HTH.

Any chance you could fix this f**king driver issue instead?

 

[Computer Bloke]

Any chance you could fix this f**king driver issue instead?

OK, here we go. It's dirty and probably violates all kinds of licensing terms but it will almost certainly work.

Find an old machine with USB 2 ports, ideally with an i3 or i5 processor so that it'll use the same HAL as the target.
Install your Windows 7 x86 on that. Keep it offline and don't activate it yet.
Clone the old machine onto your target machine. Start Windows on the target and allow it to install updates (which will include USB 3 drivers).
Activate Windows and fix anything that needs fixing. You can even do an in-place upgrade if necessary. SDIO is your friend.

(You could also install your favourite remote admin client on the temporary machine before you clone it to the target, just in case the USB 3 drivers need to be installed manually. You probably won't need to do that but it wouldn't hurt.)

Windows 7 is astonishingly tolerant of being brutally moved onto different hardware, and as long as you don't activate it on the temporary machine you shouldn't have any serious problems.

But please don't tell anyone I suggested this.

 

[glennd]

But please don't tell anyone I suggested this.

suggested what???

 

[nlinecomputers]

Personally, if all that is stopping this is a vendor being stupid I would just install it on Windows 10 anyway.

 

[seedubya]

Personally, if all that is stopping this is a vendor being stupid I would just install it on Windows 10 anyway.

They'll refuse to service the application if there are ANY issues, even those clearly unrelated to the operating system. It's all about pressuring the clients to upgrade to their cloud service. The software is absolutely essential to the business as they cannot even open their doors without it.

 

[Markverhyden]

They'll refuse to service the application if there are ANY issues, even those clearly unrelated to the operating system. It's all about pressuring the clients to upgrade to their cloud service. The software is absolutely essential to the business as they cannot even open their doors without it.

There is always money involved somehow. I have several customers that are still balking at upgrading to cloud LoB solutions. The main gripe is they do not feel they should have to pay a subscription if they "bought" the software. But I constantly remind them of the dangers of getting to far behind the state of the art. When they do upgrade it becomes a problem. Kind of like those QB users that procrastinate and then want to upgrade their QB Pro, say from '06 to '17.

 

[NviGate Systems]

They'll refuse to service the application if there are ANY issues, even those clearly unrelated to the operating system. It's all about pressuring the clients to upgrade to their cloud service. The software is absolutely essential to the business as they cannot even open their doors without it.

This is putting you in a VERY bad situation. I realize it's mission critical, however, there are times when it's just not worth it to bend over backwards for a client. You do realize YOU will be on the hook for this machine, regardless if the Vendor supports it or not. I hope you have a good contract in place to limit your liability.

If the company is refusing to upgrade to a cloud service this is understandable from a "why should we have to shell out more money" point of view. However, from a real world, Windows 7 is now facing EOL in less than 3 years. That leaves them in very bad waters. What if this PC fails and HP can't supply another one and upgrades them? What if there is an update that breaks the app? The possibilities are very bleak.

I say this all because my boss would cave in to these requests and we would end up spending days only to get nowhere or to have a half working solution at which point the client either admitted they had to change or left us as a client and went to some "competition" and they made us look like idiots because they broke license rules and just got the job done. We were left with lost hours and no progress.

I really dislike companies who don't like to invest in the future.

My rant of the day.

 

[seedubya]

They're clear on the limitations. They very much plan to upgrade to cloud - just not with this company.