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  #11  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Daifne View Post
Sorry, it did not come off as a joke, but a as a slam.
I'd agree with you if there was no big grin at the end. Because there was, it was clearly a joke.

Anyway, I'm not sure where all this talk of religion is coming from; nothing in the original post indicated that it was anything of a religious nature. Does someone not know what "philanthropy" means?

Last edited by ATTech; 07-31-2010 at 04:10 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ATTech View Post
I'd agree with you if there was no big grin at the end. Because there was, it was clearly a joke.

Anyway, I'm not sure where all this talk of religion is coming from; nothing in the original post indicated that it was anything of a religious nature. Does someone not know what "philanthropy" means?
I think the religion came up based on the original poster wanting to give discounts for other people using a program he believed in.

So the way I associate it with religion would be how some people try and push there views on to others. I have to agree with most the posters that there is no place for personal beliefs in business. Theres to much of a chance that your views with clash with someone else's.

I know it would upset me if a plummer came to my house to fix my pipes and keeps judging how I live and trying to convert me to his religion. I see this a lot with devout Christians, not just the people that go to church on Sunday, but the people that are absolutely fundamentalists. I personally consider myself a Christian but according to these people I'm going to hell.
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  #13  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:30 PM
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Yeah, I'm not sure what gave the impression that the idea stems from some sort of religious fervor. Although I don't like labels, I guess you could call me an agnostic, which is why I think things like WCG are so important - you only get one chance.

I understand that money is the motivation behind business, but I don't see what's wrong with what I suggested. If you no longer want to hire me because I support the cause to cure cancer, then you're entitled to your opinion. However I think everyone should try to operate with not only an ethical code, but a moral code - what is right and what is wrong, not only from a business standpoint. If I believe in a cause, and someone seems interested in that cause, is it wrong to mention it to them or even incentivize it?

I saw another guy on here saying he charged $60 for members of the church he goes to, but $100 for other clients. Surely the practice I describe is more ethical than that.

The most surprising thing about this is that I clearly stated in the op that I'd be unobtrusive about it and would only go ahead if they seemed responsive. I also said that I was not trying to convert anybody (which is the definition of proselytizing). Either the folks on this board cannot/choose not to read, which is fine, or my word cannot be taken at face value, in which case why would a client hire me in the first place?

Last edited by Hooked; 07-31-2010 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vdub12 View Post
Theres to much of a chance that your views with clash with someone else's.
I'm fairly certain that the OP isn't concerned with gaining business from people who are against finding a cure for cancer, muscular dystrophy or feeding the hungry.

I can understand not pushing religion, politics or moralities, but philanthropy? Are you as appalled by grocery stores asking for donations to fight breast cancer? What about businesses provided discounts to people who bring in canned goods? Where do you draw the line?
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:35 PM
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Holy smokes, I would avoid this one! First of all, I have enough people who are concerned about my remote tools letting me on their computer whenever I want, to secondly tell them that it's "ok to share a hard drive" with their personal data on it.

Avoid. Try to do this with your networking collegues, may work better but not clients and their data access. Even if it's safe, I would not risk it.
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  #16  
Old 07-31-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTech View Post
I'm fairly certain that the OP isn't concerned with gaining business from people who are against finding a cure for cancer, muscular dystrophy or feeding the hungry.

I can understand not pushing religion, politics or moralities, but philanthropy? Are you as appalled by grocery stores asking for donations to fight breast cancer? What about businesses provided discounts to people who bring in canned goods? Where do you draw the line?
I think it falls under the same controversy that easter eggs have always been under.

A good example is "Hall of Tortured Souls" in Excell 95. Developers where able to hide an entire Doom like 3D engine in a productivity program without anyone knowing about it. So whats to stop a disgruntled employee from hiding 3 lines of code that steal credit card numbers.

By offering up a program like this and giving a discount to use it might raise suspension with the client wondering what else you have running on there machine.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by vdub12 View Post
I think it falls under the same controversy that easter eggs have always been under.

A good example is "Hall of Tortured Souls" in Excell 95. Developers where able to hide an entire Doom like 3D engine in a productivity program without anyone knowing about it. So whats to stop a disgruntled employee from hiding 3 lines of code that steal credit card numbers.

By offering up a program like this and giving a discount to use it might raise suspension with the client wondering what else you have running on there machine.
I would counter that what's to stop that from happening to any program you install on your computer? It seems strange that you would be more suspicious of a philanthropic program like WCG than that of a program such as an AV that can be setup to automatically download definition updates without prompting, can run on a scheduler, etc.

I think the problem here might stem from all of you looking at this from a suspicious consumer standpoint. If a client of mine does not like the way I conduct myself, my viewpoints or my mannerisms, or whatever it is that made them suspicious of me in the first place, it's highly improbable they would hire me again anyways.

I don't think I'd lose customers doing this.
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2010, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
I would counter that what's to stop that from happening to any program you install on your computer? It seems strange that you would be more suspicious of a philanthropic program like WCG than that of a program such as an AV that can be setup to automatically download definition updates without prompting, can run on a scheduler, etc.

I think the problem here might stem from all of you looking at this from a suspicious consumer standpoint. If a client of mine does not like the way I conduct myself, my viewpoints or my mannerisms, or whatever it is that made them suspicious of me in the first place, it's highly improbable they would hire me again anyways.

I don't think I'd lose customers doing this.
My point is that everything you do in regards to the client is to make money. You are not there to be there buddy. They want to pay you to provide a service. If you are to recommend anything it should be in there best interest regarding there computer. They are not paying you to cure cancer they are paying you to fix there computer and thats what your job should be.

By offering a discount for installing a program makes them suspicious from the standpoint that if your willing to loose money for this software then whats in it for you. There must be some way for you to re comp that money. Most customers will not just see it as you trying to do that right thing because to them you are not the kid down the street your a business and your there to make a profit.
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  #19  
Old 08-01-2010, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdub12 View Post
My point is that everything you do in regards to the client is to make money. You are not there to be there buddy. They want to pay you to provide a service. If you are to recommend anything it should be in there best interest regarding there computer. They are not paying you to cure cancer they are paying you to fix there computer and thats what your job should be.

By offering a discount for installing a program makes them suspicious from the standpoint that if your willing to loose money for this software then whats in it for you. There must be some way for you to re comp that money. Most customers will not just see it as you trying to do that right thing because to them you are not the kid down the street your a business and your there to make a profit.
The it could look suspicious that you're offering a discount to install a program is a whole different argument. The argument that was initially presented was that it's not his place to offer something philanthropic from an ethical stand point.

I have a suspicion that rather than making a stretch from philanthropy to religion, the people that replied with religious topics simply didn't know what philanthropy was and assumed it was religious.

From the ethics perspective, this is equivalent to any other business soliciting donations, or providing discounts for them. I'd even argue it's more efficient and effective than said activities, as it's using unused resources and is costing the consumer nothing.

Could it seem suspicious to some people? Sure. Does that mean It's not worth doing? Perhaps. You could, however, argue the same thing about remote monitoring software, or picking up and bringing computers back to client's location. I would certainly take caution with offering it to new clients, especially if they question your every action. If it's a returning client and they aren't too paranoid, I would say go for it.
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  #20  
Old 08-01-2010, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTech View Post
From the ethics perspective, this is equivalent to any other business soliciting donations, or providing discounts for them. I'd even argue it's more efficient and effective than said activities, as it's using unused resources and is costing the consumer nothing.
Good point, I didn't think of it from that stand point.

For that mater there may be laws in place that forbid this kind of practice.
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