Go Back   Technibble Forums > General Computers > General Computer Chit-Chat

  Technibble Sponsor

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-31-2012, 06:01 PM
alluseridsrejected alluseridsrejected is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 209
alluseridsrejected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusted IT Solutions View Post
So you mean to tell me that the bad sector itself is not a physical problem with the sector? I would like to see a link that supports your statement please.
It is a physical problem with the media. If the sector can be relocated then the problem can be fixed. Now whether or not you still trust the drive is another question. What would you suppose this error in WD data lifegaurd is referring to?:

137 Relocated Sector. Sector Relocated. There may be repairable media errors on a platter. The automatic repair feature can attempt a repair if possible. You may need to rescan to ensure that the repairs were effective. Replace the drive if the error repeats.

http://support.wdc.com/techinfo/general/errorcodes.asp
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-31-2012, 07:05 PM
alluseridsrejected alluseridsrejected is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 209
alluseridsrejected is on a distinguished road
Default

Just to give you some history. This sector error correcting goes way back to mainframe DASD. And yes I used to do this. There are different situations you can run into that effect what is done with bad sectors and different drives have different error correcting technologies for dealing with bad sectors.

We used to correct bad disk spots way back when using ICKDSF (a mainframe disk utility). Not exactly what is happening today, different technology, but same idea. Below is C&P from the IBM ICKDSF manual:

Quote:
Data checks can be caused by media defects that are extremely small. In fact, they can be caused by defects that are smaller than the area of a single bit on the surface of the media.

Because defects are so small, the data can sometimes be rewritten to 'straddle' the defect. This straddling effect or skip displacement prevents subsequent reads from detecting the presence of the defect. The percentage of time that a data check is detected after multiple rewrites determines its degree of visibility. ICKDSF can perform skip displacement or assign an alternate track when skip displacement is not feasible.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-31-2012, 07:09 PM
iisjman07's Avatar
iisjman07 iisjman07 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South End Of The UK
Posts: 3,049
iisjman07 has a spectacular aura aboutiisjman07 has a spectacular aura about
Default

Just because you can't see a problem doesn't mean it's not there…
__________________
put that in your pipe and grep it
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-31-2012, 09:40 PM
Encrypted Existence Encrypted Existence is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,239
Encrypted Existence is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alluseridsrejected View Post
It is a physical problem with the media. If the sector can be relocated then the problem can be fixed. Now whether or not you still trust the drive is another question. What would you suppose this error in WD data lifegaurd is referring to?:

137 Relocated Sector. Sector Relocated. There may be repairable media errors on a platter. The automatic repair feature can attempt a repair if possible. You may need to rescan to ensure that the repairs were effective. Replace the drive if the error repeats.

http://support.wdc.com/techinfo/general/errorcodes.asp
You cannot permanently repair physical damage to a hard drive with software. I am not sure if you have been referring to "sectors" as physical or logical parts of a hard drive throughout this conversation. From what I have read I believe that when you say "sector" you are referring to a group of bits (logical). When I say "sector" I am referring to a physical part of the surface of a drive platter. I think that the common definition of "sector" may have been misconstrued throughout our debate. Which one of our definitions of the work sector as it applies to hard disks is correct? I do not know and it really doesn't matter to me. I just thought that I would clarify that when I say "damaged sector" I am referring to a physical part of the hard disk.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:40 PM
alluseridsrejected alluseridsrejected is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 209
alluseridsrejected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
I am not sure if you have been referring to "sectors" as physical or logical parts of a hard drive throughout this conversation. From what I have read I believe that when you say "sector" you are referring to a group of bits (logical).
I think are you reading what I am saying about sectors correctly.

I know there are plenty of places on the web where they refer to sectors as physical, but I would consider a sector to be logical, not physical.

I think this has been confused (sometimes by the manufactures themselves) because we no longer low level format disk drives. This was much clearer back then. The drives used to require periodic low level formatting because the servo would float out of position over time. The drives came shipped from the factory with just the media. There were no sectors on the drive. The low level formatting laid the sectors and their locations on the track out.

Today this is always done at the factory, so since it is part of the manufacturing process, sometimes it is referred to as physical.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-01-2012, 02:14 AM
Encrypted Existence Encrypted Existence is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,239
Encrypted Existence is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alluseridsrejected View Post
I think are you reading what I am saying about sectors correctly.

I know there are plenty of places on the web where they refer to sectors as physical, but I would consider a sector to be logical, not physical.

I think this has been confused (sometimes by the manufactures themselves) because we no longer low level format disk drives. This was much clearer back then. The drives used to require periodic low level formatting because the servo would float out of position over time. The drives came shipped from the factory with just the media. There were no sectors on the drive. The low level formatting laid the sectors and their locations on the track out.

Today this is always done at the factory, so since it is part of the manufacturing process, sometimes it is referred to as physical.
Okay. From what I can gather we agree with each other. We just have different definitions of the word sector. From the way that you described how things used to be done some time ago I can see why.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:33 PM
Martyn's Avatar
Martyn Martyn is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bedfordshire UK
Posts: 5,610
Martyn has a spectacular aura aboutMartyn has a spectacular aura about
Default

Anyway back to the OP. With the price of hard drives still high(dropping) I have a drive here with 8 bad sectors out of 1,465,144,065 sectors. HD Regenerator will remap those and the drive will run ok. I always tell the client and they have the choice of that or i fit a new drive. They also know that they need to back up asap.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:44 PM
alluseridsrejected alluseridsrejected is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 209
alluseridsrejected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
HD Regenerator will remap those and the drive will run ok.
That sounds like pretty neat software. I have had similar results though just reformatting the drive, and running the long test with repair option using the manufacturer's diagnostic tool. Not saying hdd regenerator is not better, because I really don't know and have never used it.

For Western Digital - Data Lifegaurd
For Seagate and Maxtor - Seatools

The DOS versions are generally more powerful than the Windows versions. Each vendor has their own tool.

I have a few drives sitting on a shelf right now that were failing with bad sectors but now pass diagnostics. But I have not really tried using them to see if they will hold up.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-01-2012, 10:40 PM
Techmobile Techmobile is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Isle of Lewis, Scotland
Posts: 14
Techmobile is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Hdat is another good program to repair bad sectors.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:33 PM
coffee's Avatar
coffee coffee is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA, Indiana
Posts: 1,641
coffee has a spectacular aura aboutcoffee has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Skype™ to coffee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jim View Post
As per title really.

Got a customer's HDD in here that woin't image, but I have managed to copy every file off it to back up.
Would be nice to be able to image it though and restore windows that way.
If not I will just have to reinstall windows when the new drive arrives.

Cheers
James
Clonezilla bootable cloning disk in expert mode would work on that. Would take a while but would do it.

Thats what I use.
__________________

www.renuecomputers.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Technibble.com is based out of MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA.