Whats the benefit?

[bagellad]

Ive been hearing good things about this O/S from the repair stand point and recovery, I was wondering what the real benefits are?

[seedubya]

Linux is wonderful, however don't believe even half of what you hear. It won't actually drive to the customer and do the job for you.
One of the biggest benefits is it's free. Linux filesystem tools are excellent. Linux boot CDs are great for testing hardware i.e. if it works with a boot cd but not in Windows then Windows is the problem but if it doesn't work in either then hardware is (probably) the problem. NTPasswordRecovery is a command line Linux boot cd and resets passwords on NT/2K/XP/Vista accounts. However, I've never done anything using Linux that could not be achieved some other way.

[Fred_G]

Linux/Unix = no virus. Pron anyone...:cool:

Seriously, the Linux is a great OS, if you are willing to spend some time learning it.

If you just want to use it to boot and recover data from a hard drive it works for that as well.

[iptech]

As others have said Linux/UNIX are robust and flexible operating systems with many 'flavours' available to suit many needs. Arguably (from a Microsoft perspective) they are less prone to virus/malware attack as they are not widely adopted by consumers and are therefore a much smaller target market for the scammers and virus writers although Unix fanbois will contest that it's because the OS is fundamentally more secure than Windoze. IMHO the reality is somewhere in between the two camps. :cool:

Linux has also found favour amongst much of the server community as it's not bogged down my the complex and almost indecipherable Microsoft licensing system which in turn require additional server overhead above comparative Linux/UNIX configurations.

Modern dektop Linux systems are much more user friendly than their UNIX counterparts and we are now seeing a lot more consumer products such as the ASUS Micro eePC and dedicated products such as e-book readers and PDA's that utilise an embedded Linux OS. UNIX never really found favour on the desktop outside of specialist applications such as CAD.

From a techie perspective Linux/UNIX skills are good to have although expect a steeper learning curve compared to learning Windows. The plus side is that's it's much cheaper to learn Linux than Windows as there's a wealth of tutorial/support information available across the Web.

[ithinkyou5.0]

linux is a great OS to use personaly but due to its complexity at some points not realy an effective alternative to windows on a customer pc. unix based operating systems are always going to be more stable than windows and the (relatively) virus free linux world is great aswell. mostly i use it because its free and for every program big companys will rob you of your gold fillings for you can find an equivelent just as good if not better program for linux that is free. linux is also becomeing more compatible threw wine and other emulators and the help and support is amazing. earlyer this year i had a problem installing drivers for my sound card under ubuntu and all i had to do was google the moddle of my sound card and i found about 50+ pages of help its realy a great enviornment and the linux users are very much a comunity when it comes to help and support so you get to talk to someone who knows whats going on rather than the pimple faced teenager or single mother answering the phones for microsoft help

[RoboGeek]

There are so many fallacies about linux - its hard to use, there is no software, it won't run on modern PC's.. you name it!

I run it daily because the amount of software blows away what windows or macs can get. Its so easy to use my non-tekkie wife never notices if I forget to reboot her dual boot machine, or the lappy if we are on vacation.

I have several senior citizens set up on PC's that do email only for them. I have a cabinet making company set up with linux servers, and they liked it so much they converted every old PC over instead of buying new ones (linux is much faster than windows).

Over 50% of my customers use linux!!
This post was made from linux!



Repair and recovery is what I originally started using linux for. The best password recovery tools are linux based, Helix is one of the best forensics toolkits out there, backtrack is the premier toolkit for pen testing, and ossim is the best wireless security toolkit around

[ithinkyou5.0]

There are so many fallacies about linux - its hard to use, there is no software, it won't run on modern PC's.. you name it!

that having been said ive had alot of trouble with not so tech savvy clients that were using it. im not talking about not knowing how to flash a bios ignorant im talking not knowing what an OS is ignorant. there are people out there that are 100% computer illiterate that can manage okay on a windows machine but if you sat them in front of a linux machine they would be lost. i had a situation where a customer bought a laptop with ubuntu pre installed on it and couldnt understand why they couldnt run any programs that where .exe's. this type of thing happens and just because an OS is easy for you it might not be easy for people who arnt a seasoned vet when it comes to technology.

[RoboGeek]

my customers don't do that stuff - they call me when they need something added. I train them well.. lol

I got asked again (by a M$ lover) why I bother with linux since the whole world runs on M$

I figured it out, and 82% of my customers run linux! So my question back to him was.. how can you afford NOT to run linux!?!?!

[rsavoia]

Another fallacy that a lot of techs have is that you can't make a living selling Linux because it is open source and it is a Windows World.

The truth is, you can. As Microsoft trained techs and resellers we've been so conditioned to believe that we have to sell the software to make money that most of us won't even try to sell it. It is Microsoft and other proprietary commercial software companies that have taught us this because they believe it themselves. Ballmer still doesn't understand open source as a business model and doesn't really believe in it as a profitable enterprise. If he did Microsoft would probably be all over Linux development.

As Robo said, 85% of his customers run Linux. If he isn't making money I doubt he would be marketing Linux based systems to his customers.

We ran a three part series on Selling Linux earlier this year for the FF podcast to promote Linux as a way for us to diversify. We did it because it is another opportunity that is overlooked by IT businesses.

The market is saturated with Windows techs and everyone is competing for a smaller piece of the pie. I have had conversations with other service providers discussing ways to create niches in the IT marketplace and increase market share. This is one niche that is staring everyone in the face and the ones who get into it do very well.

In fact, there is an increasing demand for Linux because many companies have either considered migrating to it or have already done so, due in part to Windows Vista. Linux market share has increased since Vista was launched two years ago and there is a real shortage of Linux techs.

Linux professionals who are looking for W2 work also find jobs with higher starting salaries than system admins who have an MCSE.

It's something to think about.

[techytype]

i've dabbled with linux here and there. a major drawback of linux is that there aren't any native competitive apps for linux like photoshop and vegas. i haven't tried running these apps under emulators yet, and they could work just fine. another drawback is the lack of drivers for specialty audio and video interfaces. hopefully the hardware manufacturers will come around to providing linux drivers.

[doortodoorgeek]

i've dabbled with linux here and there. a major drawback of linux is that there aren't any native competitive apps for linux like photoshop and vegas. i haven't tried running these apps under emulators yet, and they could work just fine. another drawback is the lack of drivers for specialty audio and video interfaces. hopefully the hardware manufacturers will come around to providing linux drivers.

I am not going t mention the apps that can do almost exactly what those apps can do

What I will mention is the percentage of Windows users that actually use those apps, in my experience it's pretty low, now I will admit to seeing a flavor of photoshop installed on a few endusers pc but those users rarely know it is their or how to use it

[seedubya]

I am not going t mention the apps that can do almost exactly what those apps can do

What I will mention is the percentage of Windows users that actually use those apps, in my experience it's pretty low, now I will admit to seeing a flavor of photoshop installed on a few endusers pc but those users rarely know it is their or how to use it

The Gimp is not Photoshop, even with the GimpShop mod. Ask any properly experienced user. Cinelerra is not Vegas or Premiere, no matter how hard it tries.

As for how many people "actually use" Photoshop et al. The unlicenced crowd don't count - they wouldn't pay for the software so they're certainly not going to pay for the value added services that F[L]OSS needs to become a comercial sucess and compete with the likes of Adobe. The licenced crowd are not going to move to F[L]OSS simply because it doesn't make fiscal sense. Remember, the licencing cost is minimal in their overheads. The real cost is in the ongoing maintenance and training of users - not to mention the high-end customisations, add-ons, filters etc. that simply are not available for F[L]OSS. The amount of money in both cash and time terms invested in the incumbents is colossal.

In short, desktop Linux has no killer app/no USP. Being free is NOT a USP. End users DON'T count. Only TCO. Only business users. Desktop computing technology is adopted top down.

[David34]

I don't have any personal experience with Linux but I hear great things about it. Supposedly, its hard to get a virus when you run it.

[doortodoorgeek]

The Gimp is not Photoshop, even with the GimpShop mod. Ask any properly experienced user. Cinelerra is not Vegas or Premiere, no matter how hard it tries.

As for how many people "actually use" Photoshop et al. The unlicenced crowd don't count - they wouldn't pay for the software so they're certainly not going to pay for the value added services that F[L]OSS needs to become a comercial sucess and compete with the likes of Adobe. The licenced crowd are not going to move to F[L]OSS simply because it doesn't make fiscal sense. Remember, the licencing cost is minimal in their overheads. The real cost is in the ongoing maintenance and training of users - not to mention the high-end customisations, add-ons, filters etc. that simply are not available for F[L]OSS. The amount of money in both cash and time terms invested in the incumbents is colossal.

In short, desktop Linux has no killer app/no USP. Being free is NOT a USP. End users DON'T count. Only TCO. Only business users. Desktop computing technology is adopted top down.

From my experience and from people I listen to and read up on, businesses stick with windows for 3 reasons, they are used to it (from home or it was already at the business), stupidity (thinking Linux is behind, unsafe, unusable, because it is open source it is weaker or the real biggie, if it is free it can not be any good) and the lack of someone to point the finger out when something goes wrong. Businesses love pointing the finger and saying it is someone else's fault and someone else's responsibility to fix

Every professional Photoshop user with the time to actually learn Gimp says it can do 99% of the things Photoshop can do just not as easy and not as glamorous (most task do require a lot more steps), video editing is behind but what percentage of users do high end video editing I had great luck using Lives (http://lives.sourceforge.net/) for video editing, the only three things business care about it speed of resolution, cost right now and TOC and retrain-ability. On the third Linux falls real short

and no in reality you can not get a single virus on a Linux box (I know proof of concept says otherwise but in the real world they do not exist), you can get rootkitted but wow it is really hard to

Everything since the beginning of time has came with pluses and minuses, Linux is no exception

a very few pluses
Infinitely customizability
No viruses
Everything including kernel, gui, apps, drivers are always 100% to date using package management (like windowsupdate but for everything)
Far greater choices of applications to get things done
Endless supply of places to receive personal help

a very few of the minuses
unknown gui and backend to new users
unknown application pool (no MS office out of the box) but I did install and run Office 2003 with no issues (using wine)
some complex task are easy, some easy task are very complex
If your a first timer and your all hardware does not work perfect it can seem insurmountable task to fix

[techytype]

seedubya has it right, but i like to think that there are more home/hobbiest out there than ever before. i've tried the linux alternatives and they don't even come close. there are some excellent windows apps available today like photoshop elements, vegas movie studio, and reaper audio, which aren't prohibitively expensive for home/hobby use. nearly every computer user i know has shown some interest in some type of media creation. with the availability of today's robust machines, hobby level hardware, and matured software, anyone can get involved in media creation. the first piece of software that i purchased for my first computer was a video editor. my second software purchase was an image editor for my girlfriend. there was no type of local support available for this stuff back then. it looks to be the same today.

[techytype]

doortodoorgeek, you're right about gimp. it is a powerful app, but it's features are poorly implemented, imo. i realize that gimp is open source, but it's had time to mature. it's over 10 years old now!

[seedubya]

Doortodoorgeek - you may think I'm an MS apologist - far from it. I happen to believe Windows is pretty crap in many ways. I run a Linux netbook and treble boot my main Windows machine including Ubuntu. My webserver is running CentOS and my LAN security is handled by an Untangle box. My VOIP is running on Asterisk. I just don't buy all the "Linux on the Desktop" hype. Desktop linux is getting closer but it's not there yet.

From my experience and from people I listen to and read up on, businesses stick with windows for 3 reasons, they are used to it (from home or it was already at the business), stupidity (thinking Linux is behind, unsafe, unusable, because it is open source it is weaker or the real biggie, if it is free it can not be any good) and the lack of someone to point the finger out when something goes wrong. Businesses love pointing the finger and saying it is someone else's fault and someone else's responsibility to fix

The first reason -absolutely true. The second reason is partly right but don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. The third reason is just bull. Businesses care about staying in business - i.e. making a profit.

the only three things business care about it speed of resolution, cost right now and TOC and retrain-ability. On the third Linux falls real short

What is "speed of resolution?". The "cost right now" of using The Gimp for one of my graphic design customers would include OS deployment, application deployment, retraining, conversion of existing files to relevant file types, possibly new printers, plotters, graphics tablets, even PCs etc. etc. etc.

and no in reality you can not get a single virus on a Linux box (I know proof of concept says otherwise but in the real world they do not exist), you can get rootkitted but wow it is really hard to
Linux's security is certainly far superior to Windows however it's not entirely immune either anymore than is OSX or any current OS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses

Everything since the beginning of time has came with pluses and minuses, Linux is no exception

a very few pluses
Infinitely customizability - don't really see this as a benefit for real people - for geeks its great
No viruses - currently true
Everything including kernel, gui, apps, drivers are always 100% to date using package management (like windowsupdate but for everything) - true so long as the end user remembers to update
Far greater choices of applications to get things done - don't see this as a benefit for real people either - Mac users manage very well with a small pool of very good software
Endless supply of places to receive personal help - again, real people don't go to forums for help.

a very few of the minuses
unknown gui and backend to new users
unknown application pool (no MS office out of the box) but I did install and run Office 2003 with no issues (using wine)
some complex task are easy, some easy task are very complex
If your a first timer and your all hardware does not work perfect it can seem insurmountable task to fix

For an end user EVERY ONE of these is insurmountable.

[doortodoorgeek]

Linux Changing to Linux on the desktop is a never-ending argument, true, kinda true, kinda true, and the wikipedia thing is a proof of concept none are recorded out in the real world, and absolutely not

If a end user wants to figure out Windows XP or Vista they will find the time, the very same fact is true for Linux and remember with any OS you will only get out of it what you want to and what you put into it that goes for any OS ever made

[l337]

with all these new netbooks comming out with linux on them ive started to mess with a heap more linux distros to get a feel for it lol.

one thing ive seen alot of people go for the cheap pcs nowdays so its handy to know as much about them as possible lol.

sure the hardware is the same. but the whole OS is a complete new thing to learn lol. hail SUDO xD

[davesomebody]

I think things have changed since I cut back on my Linux use. For informational sake I will document why I burned out on running linux.

The community that creates the distributions can get picky about what drivers they will support. Back when I bought my Dell Inspiron 5150 I decided to resize the partition in half and dual boot it between Fedora Core and Windows XP.

My Inspiron 5150 has an Nvidia graphics card and Broadcom wifi installed in it. At that time Nvidia supplied closed source drivers for their video cards. And Broadcom would not provide drivers or publish their specs.

What I didn't realize when I bought the laptop was that the linux community was unhappy with both Broadcaom and Nvidia for these reasons.

The general feeling was that Nvidia should have published the source code to their drivers. So very few distributions would officially support the close source drivers. And members of the Linux community would practically provoke Nvidia over this. This isn't how you bring a large company around to your way of thinking.

I noticed similar behavior around Broadcom when it came to the Linux community. Folks would vent pretty harshly at Broadcom about their reluctance to publish their specs. I was pretty unhappy at how the Linux community went about resolving disagreements with hardware vendors.

To the credit of the strong Linux community, I got both the video card and wifi working just like I wanted. Though I needed to do more work if I wanted WPA support. I still had problems because there was no supported means to do this in Fedora Core. So I seriously lost video and wifi whenever a major kernel upgrade came out.

I understand that things have been resolved with both Broadcom and Nvidia now. I am not active enough in the Linux community to know who is in the hot seat now.

And yes you do need to patch Linux regular if you have network based services running on it. The network based services in Linux can be attacked or exploited just like they can in Windows. And I in my work life I have seen poorly configured Linux based systems hacked into, stripped down and turned into personal file servers by hackers.

I would like to add that keeping a simple Linux install healthy and secure is easy. Now that vendors are building machines meant to run Ubuntu it is easier than ever.

I guess the point of my story is that you can pretty much get anything to work in Linux if you can read and are very comfortable with Google. It seemed to me I was investing a lot more time updating the OS to get it to do the things I wanted it to do. And there were always reasons to boot into Windows due to some active-x heavy web site or Windows only application I wanted to run.

So I went back to running XP for personal computing. And besides, a lot of the stuff that is free on Linux is actually beginning to show up in Windows now.