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kshunt
07-17-2011, 02:49 AM
Need some help if possible, and I thank you in advance. The issue is that while I have deployed a few servers, both with and without exchange, it has always a single server requirement.

I now have a client that will need two servers deployed - the main server running 2008 R2 with exchange - and the second will be a database 2008 server running oracle and a business application. When I bid the job, it was for one server - but some things have changed and now its a multiple installation.

I am hoping to gain some insight from a few of you that have deployed multiple servers - so I can decide if I should try and should be able to move forward on my own or look for some outsourced assistance. I have searched a bit for some tutorials on this - but have not found much yet.

pceinc
07-17-2011, 04:11 AM
Check out Intel's Hybrid Cloud Solutions. You may be able to get away with a VM. Otherwise, there is not much involved when deploying a second server. Join it to the domain and setup your business applications. You should not be afraid of two servers. Just make sure your backup and disaster recover plan is in place and meets the expectations of your client. Falling short on disaster recover is scary.

teksquad
07-17-2011, 03:30 PM
Is their an existing exchange environment already in place? If not is the 08 server of the small business variety. If so which version (standard or premium). Is the new server 2008 box running anything else besides exchange? I agree with the vm solution. We run something very similar using 2 ESXi servers in a clustered environment. The mail stores, CAS,edge transport and hub transport roles are all on separate vm's. I would be hesitant to put all the exchange roles on one physical box. (unless its a SBS server or something) If that box goes down all exchange goes down, whereas if the roles are split up and say the CAS goes down, the worst case is that web mail will not work. Granted this will effect Outlook Anywhere configurations and mobile devices but mail flow through the hub will continue. Also with vm's recover is much easier in regards to snapshots. Are you going to manage the exchange side? Exchange isnt something that you check on once a month. It needs to be monitored constantly imo. What are your backup strategies? How about email archiving etc. (Do they need it by law?)

kshunt
07-17-2011, 04:10 PM
pceinc - Thanks for the information, I have not played with VM servers - but I will look into it as an option.

teksquad - nothing in place as far as servers - just peer to peer right now, I would be installing everything. Looks like I have to go non SBS - though I prefer that myself. Reason is the business app (Quantum - its an airplane parts application) that the client needs to run on the DB server - supposedly does not play well with SBS.

I will need to check, but maybe I can run SBS has the main server with exchange and then server 2008 as the DB server. Are there reasons to not mix the server OS's between boxes?

teksquad
07-17-2011, 04:49 PM
Typically when using SBS the SBS server requires that it maintains all the FSMO roles (schema, PDC emulator etc) for the domain. With SBS 2008 standard and premium this is still the case. The SBS has to be the root and no child domains. In your case this isnt an issue as there are no existing DC's. With SBS Standard microsoft says there can be only 1 server (I have seen workarounds for this) but with SBS Premium "Microsoft" will let you add another server (Can be a DC or member server,Microsoft likes this to be a SQL server) but all the FSMO roles and the server software (Exchange,Sharepoint etc) must remain on the SBS. So there are alot of restrictions with using SBS. For a small company with not much grow this would be fine but for an expanding company with future growth you may want to consider moving to standard or enterprise editions. In regards to exchange since this will be a new domain why not give the option for cloud based mail servers? Google Apps, Microsoft 365 or a managed exchange environment. Exchange needs constant monitoring and alot of customers dont realize this. Then theres the issues of mail storage, archiving etc. I am currently moving to google apps where I work. We have over 1300 mailboxes. Exchange consumes alot of my time. I for one am glad to get it hosted elsewhere.

colonydata
07-17-2011, 09:13 PM
from my reading so far, MS dose not support and dose not recommend running Exchange on a Domain Controller. and i am not sure i would run a DB or App server on a domain controller unless it is specifically required by the App.

But it sounds like they want you to do a little more than deploy two servers? sounds more like they want you to develop there network operating environment.


honestly it sounds like to me you really need 4 servers to do it the right and proper way. where you have a PDC and BDC, and then your mail server and DB/APP server running as domain member servers.

you could probably get away with using two fairly beefy ESX servers, just make sure that your PDC and BDC are on different machines. or get vmotion running.

cyabro
07-17-2011, 09:21 PM
How many users are going to be on the network?

teksquad
07-17-2011, 09:31 PM
SBS has to be a DC no matter what, as its part of the install so in that regard that would be the only time where running a DC and Exchange on the same server would be okay.

The concept of PDC and BDC's have been gone since Windows 2000 Server and active directory. All DC's are technically the same, the only difference is where the FSMO roles are. All DC's in an active directory domain contain the same database and changes will be replicated, so all DC's have current information. So the term "BDC" isnt really applicable anymore. The only exception would be Server 2008 core which was designed as a "read only" DC.

I think you should really sit down with the customer and discuss options. Sounds like they dont have a dedicated IT staff, so who is going to manage exchange? How much storage do they have? Whats the anticipated growth (You may outgrow a SBS server quickly) Talk about cloud based solutions etc.

krtechsolutions
07-17-2011, 11:28 PM
for this setup I would go with a setup like this

Server
1 - Beefy server with lots of memory and disk space
Such as a Quad Core Processor maybe 2 Quad Core processprs
at least 16gb of ram
4 x 1TB Drives
2 x powersupplies

Backups
1 X Shadowprotect license
http://www.storagecraft.com/shadow-protect-Virtual.php
http://buy.storagecraft.com/StorageCraft-ShadowProtect-Virtual-Server-Bundles-C33.aspx
1 X DS411J
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108066
You will need to buy had drives just get 4 x 1tb drives

Windows 2008 Standard 2008 R2, this will come with 1 psychial license and 1 virtual license, so with this install 2008 r2 and install hyper-v, then install a virtual server that will be 2008 r2 this will be your DB server.

Buy a Windows 2011 SBS License, this will allow you to run up to 75 users and 200GB on the exchange database, install this as a virtual server

The reason why i recommend hyper-v instead of wmare is the simple fact that i have seen that hyper-v i easier to manage in small business envirnoments, as it just like any other windows box

This would be a setup I would put in a client of mind

Rich

colonydata
07-18-2011, 07:02 PM
for this setup I would go with a setup like this

Server
1 - Beefy server with lots of memory and disk space
Such as a Quad Core Processor maybe 2 Quad Core processprs
at least 16gb of ram
4 x 1TB Drives
2 x powersupplies

Backups
1 X Shadowprotect license
http://www.storagecraft.com/shadow-protect-Virtual.php
http://buy.storagecraft.com/StorageCraft-ShadowProtect-Virtual-Server-Bundles-C33.aspx
1 X DS411J
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108066
You will need to buy had drives just get 4 x 1tb drives

Windows 2008 Standard 2008 R2, this will come with 1 psychial license and 1 virtual license, so with this install 2008 r2 and install hyper-v, then install a virtual server that will be 2008 r2 this will be your DB server.

Buy a Windows 2011 SBS License, this will allow you to run up to 75 users and 200GB on the exchange database, install this as a virtual server

The reason why i recommend hyper-v instead of wmare is the simple fact that i have seen that hyper-v i easier to manage in small business envirnoments, as it just like any other windows box

This would be a setup I would put in a client of mind

Rich

i would not go with one server. go two slightly smaller servers

Jake77444
07-18-2011, 11:46 PM
I think you should consider contracting this out to someone that has experience in this area. I can tell you one thing....from what I've read here you are getting a lot of misinformation and bad practices.

RobertH
07-19-2011, 06:36 AM
I think you should consider contracting this out to someone that has experience in this area. I can tell you one thing....from what I've read here you are getting a lot of misinformation and bad practices.


+1

Leave it to somone who knows how to do it right.

kshunt
07-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Sorry for the late reply, I was out of pocket for the past week. Thanks for all the input and insight. Looks like I have some things to consider that I had not thought about.