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TimJacobs
04-28-2011, 10:01 AM
<BEGIN RANT>
OK, well I have no problem helping other techs out, hell even EU's. But I think that everyone that wants to ask for help in any of the Help threads should have to read and well AGREE to These. (http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1246)

I am getting tired of people telling techs how to be techs.

Simple diagnostics goes a LONG ways. I have seen atleast 3 threads this week alone that somewhere in there someone stated: "Take it to a Professional".

Well you know what that tells me. That they aren't doing their Job right. Diagnose the Freaking PC. If we have to tell you how to diagnose a Computer what are you doing here?

And something else.......... Google is your friend.... If you say hey, I need this and we post a link that's a LMGTFY link then it is your own fault. It was right there all along. Now If googling don't help in your case then please state something along the lines of:
"I tried googling "This Term" and it didn't come up with what I was looking for".

So people PLEASE Read This Thread (http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1246).

</RANT (For now)>

Martyn
04-28-2011, 10:16 AM
I agree. I usually try to hold back a bit but then someone always replies to help. I think it fairly obvious when someone is an end user(sometimes we're wrong). It's all about anaytical fault finding and as long as the person has documented what they have tried and what they think it might be(and the process of getting there) then all is good. We all miss things and need a 'person over your shoulder' at times but as long as people look like they have tried then things won't get out of hand. None of us can know everything.

There is a saying ' those of you who think you know it all are annoying those of us who do' :p;)

TLE
04-28-2011, 10:44 AM
It can be difficult to differentiate at times, Like you guys I always read back through the previous posts to see if they have a history of asking simple or idiotic questions, but even then you can't be sure. It's annoying, but it would seem that we are pretty powerless to stop it.

AdamsAPlus
04-28-2011, 01:33 PM
What we should do, and I know it won't work so i'm not sure why I'm even posting this. We should have a template. I know there are times when I come on there and ask for help. My brain is so fried that I'm not thinking straight.

So like our template when you join, we should have a template to use when asking for help.

1) What is the problem and please describe in detail?

2) Have you tried googling the problem? (If the answer is no then stop there and delete this thread)

3) What have you tried? (again give details)

So times it's hard to tell the difference between nubbies and EUs. I have no problem helping nubbies. We were all there once. Maybe if we had this template it will help out the nubbies. They may not know what to ask. They may have received a computer in and get the dreaded BSoD for the first time and been like I don't even know where to begin.

totalPCTechs
04-28-2011, 01:35 PM
Lol this is a rant that's been posted before. Did u Google ur rant before you started another thread?? Lol j/p.

Sent from my Android Thunderbolt.

16k_zx81
04-28-2011, 02:16 PM
lol this is a rant that's been posted before. Did u google ur rant before you started another thread?? Lol j/p.

:) I like that.

OP. There's no point getting p..se.d off about it. Don't waste your energy - its not going to change :)

14049752
04-28-2011, 02:47 PM
It seems like once people are on the forums long enough, they start to realize how things are...then get angry about it....then eventually you just learn to deal with it and ignore certain things.
I ended up leaving the forum for six or seven months, because I got sick of it. Now I just ignore most of the stuff on here and pay attention to the stuff that interests me.

Paul Rodgers
04-28-2011, 03:06 PM
We can all complain about how things are being done here, but in the end it isn't worth it. If i was running the show there are things I would do differently, but I'm not so I'm going to keep my opinions on management to myself. Overall I think Bryce has done a wonderful job in operating the site.

16k_zx81
04-28-2011, 03:32 PM
If i was running the show there are things I would do differently, but I'm not so I'm going to keep my opinions on management to myself.

AFAIC there probably no an easy single fix for it (if indeed there is one). But by all means, if you do have a better approach than the current methods ... suggest it. Im sure everyone would be interested to hear how it would be done.

ATTech
04-28-2011, 04:49 PM
For every person you have telling them to take it to a qualified technician, you have another person actively helping them. That's your problem.

TLE
04-28-2011, 05:09 PM
For every person you have telling them to take it to a qualified technician, you have another person actively helping them. That's your problem.

That's because we all have different opinions on the subject and there in lies the problem. One half don't believe that they should given any help, and others would rather give them the help in the hope that they learn and become better. I personally tend to straddle the line and on some occasions ignore them, and on others offer help.

There is no perfect solution, and this topic will reappear every few months over and over again. You never know though, we may come up with a solution this time.:D

anonymous Mac Tech
04-28-2011, 05:25 PM
It seems like once people are on the forums long enough, they start to realize how things are...then get angry about it....then eventually you just learn to deal with it and ignore certain things.


This is where I've been for a while now. Its the TN member life cycle. Being a frustrated outspoken senior contributor gets you more grief then being PT/end user. So eventually you just have to sit back and laugh or move on to another web page. There will always be n00bs replacing the n00bs asking simple questions and there will always be outspoken senior members getting fed up to replace former outspoken senior members that have left altogether or quit speaking up.

TLE
04-28-2011, 05:29 PM
This is where I've been for a while now. Its the TN member life cycle. Being a frustrated outspoken senior contributor gets you more grief then being PT/end user.

PT?? Part time or Pizza Tech

TimJacobs
04-28-2011, 05:57 PM
Lol this is a rant that's been posted before. Did u Google ur rant before you started another thread?? Lol j/p.


I googled pissed off techs, and well I got like 2 million hits and I didn't feel like going through them all......... lol

TimJacobs
04-28-2011, 05:59 PM
:) I like that.

OP. There's no point getting p..se.d off about it. Don't waste your energy - its not going to change :)

Yeah I know I was just having a BAD night........ And well It was either RANT about it or throw the computer......... I picked RANT.

TimJacobs
04-28-2011, 06:05 PM
AFAIC there probably no an easy single fix for it (if indeed there is one). But by all means, if you do have a better approach than the current methods ... suggest it. Im sure everyone would be interested to hear how it would be done.

I agree...... We are a community. Bryce don't have a problem implementing something if it is good. Like the Wiki.

For every person you have telling them to take it to a qualified technician, you have another person actively helping them. That's your problem.

I have no problem helping the Newbies out..... I was one at one time. No one started out knowing everything. So we were all there once. The problem I have is we are all suppose to be techs, and well every tech I know, knows Google. If you don't know how to research a problem then well you don't need to be a tech.....

We are problem solvers. That is what we do, we solve problems..... With a little (or even sometimes a lot) research anything can be solved.

Thats All I am saying........

anth
04-28-2011, 06:53 PM
Well since I know everything :):) I'll chime in on this discussion, I'm not a noob and I'm not exactly a senior member, but if I see a noob post I tried to answer, it might a bit repetitive but I think it just builds to the "knowledge base of the forum."

The answer may be out there either searching Google or search the forum, but a new post and a previously answered question, might have a different spin on it, and it is adding content to the forum, other than makeing the database a little bigger I really don't see any hurt in it. If you see a post with noob questions ignore let the other noobs answer it.

seedubya
04-28-2011, 08:12 PM
This is where I've been for a while now. Its the TN member life cycle. Being a frustrated outspoken senior contributor gets you more grief then being PT/end user. So eventually you just have to sit back and laugh or move on to another web page. There will always be n00bs replacing the n00bs asking simple questions and there will always be outspoken senior members getting fed up to replace former outspoken senior members that have left altogether or quit speaking up.

Shall we start a choir so that we can SING IT?

16k_zx81
04-29-2011, 01:06 AM
Well since I know everything :):) I'll chime in on this discussion, I'm not a noob and I'm not exactly a senior member, but if I see a noob post I tried to answer, it might a bit repetitive but I think it just builds to the "knowledge base of the forum."

The answer may be out there either searching Google or search the forum, but a new post and a previously answered question, might have a different spin on it, and it is adding content to the forum, other than makeing the database a little bigger I really don't see any hurt in it. If you see a post with noob questions ignore let the other noobs answer it.

Respectfully, I couldnt be more in disagreement with your position :)

The comment "search the forum" is usually made in response to questions that have been asked and discussions that have been had, many times over.

Its just basic courtesy for people seeking assistance to do at least a minimum of research (it takes all of 30 secs or a minute to do a search) before engaging other people to spend their own time assisting.

No one is begrudging lending a hand. However, if the discussion has been had like 20 times before, yet another post identical to all the others on here is just creating junk threads and wasting others' time

There are a number of themes that recur over and over and over, and it gets tiresome having people raise them repeatedly just because they couldnt be bothered looking to start with.

In actual fact, these kind of repetitive questions will be better answered by a search than by a single thread because the established body of knowledge is significant and will do more justice to the question. In this regard its in any OP's interests to do the search first because they will end up with a much more comprehensive answer!

iptech
04-29-2011, 01:39 AM
This is where I've been for a while now. Its the TN member life cycle. Being a frustrated outspoken senior contributor gets you more grief then being PT/end user. So eventually you just have to sit back and laugh or move on to another web page. There will always be n00bs replacing the n00bs asking simple questions and there will always be outspoken senior members getting fed up to replace former outspoken senior members that have left altogether or quit speaking up.
Ain't that the truth.

I used to see insight and wisdom from many members on this forum, now they have moved on and been replaced by high post count and end-user type questions. By pissing-off experienced and time-served techs this forum isn't changing the professional industry, it's just lowering its own profile to serve the lowest common denominator.

@Bryce and for the record of others - if you're going to quote me please do so accurately and not use words that deliberately incite the religious fun(da)mentalist & your pet trolls; I have never and never would use the phrase "this place sucks". If anyone else had done that you would have used your big stick against them.

anth
04-29-2011, 03:42 AM
Someone once was told me that I always have to have the last word..now see I don't have to the last word I'm not going to reply to 16k_zx81..See no last word :D

Trenatos
04-29-2011, 04:35 AM
I don't mind helping people.
If someone comes here and says "Hey, I'm pretty decent with computers, build them etc. and want to become a full time tech" and then asks for advice, I don't mind helping them.

But then you have the ones either impersonating a real tech and then asking how to diagnose a network card and how to install firefox (Slight over exaggeration, but only by a hair.)

Or the ones giving advice regurgitated from google, only to ask in their next thread how to remove a 4 year old virus.

Those are the ones who gets to me.

There's my part of the ranting. :P

TimJacobs
04-29-2011, 04:59 AM
I don't mind helping people.
If someone comes here and says "Hey, I'm pretty decent with computers, build them etc. and want to become a full time tech" and then asks for advice, I don't mind helping them.

But then you have the ones either impersonating a real tech and then asking how to diagnose a network card and how to install firefox (Slight over exaggeration, but only by a hair.)

Or the ones giving advice regurgitated from google, only to ask in their next thread how to remove a 4 year old virus.

Those are the ones who gets to me.

There's my part of the ranting. :P

I agree......................

ATTech
04-29-2011, 06:33 AM
The answer may be out there either searching Google or search the forum, but a new post and a previously answered question, might have a different spin on it, and it is adding content to the forum, other than makeing the database a little bigger I really don't see any hurt in it. If you see a post with noob questions ignore let the other noobs answer it.
What's the point in having a vast database of knowledge, if nobody is bothering to search it?

NorCal Internet
04-29-2011, 12:10 PM
My biggest peeve, and it's not just in these forums, but other forums and e-mail lists I'm on, is when someone asks a question, you offer suggestions, but you never hear from the person again... You don't know if your suggestions solved the issue, or not, or if someone elses suggestion solved it...

They just disappear...

Screwloose
04-29-2011, 12:53 PM
This does appear to come up every now and again. We cant all be at the same level of expertise and certainly it can be frustrating for the senior techs to keep answering the same questions or seeing what we would consider basic troubleshooting skills issues.

I try to not be judgmental ... but it can be hard. I can remember back to when I was just learning about OS's and hardware and would sit in my home office with manuals in my lap while I would troubleshoot by trial and error what was wrong with my PC ( Didnt have google back then lol ) so when folks ask a pretty basic question part of me wants to say "Go find the answer like I had to!"... I think you just have to remember this is a forum for all levels of techs and try to think back to where you were professionally when learning your skillset. Patience can go a long way.

anth
04-29-2011, 01:49 PM
What's the point in having a vast database of knowledge, if nobody is bothering to search it?


More content, more to feed Google, more traffic?

NeutronTech
04-29-2011, 02:31 PM
My issue isn't with answering questions. Everyone here is at a different level and have different areas of interest. The problem lies with the lack of basic troubleshooting concepts. You don't have to know all the ins and outs of a computer to at least narrow down the issue. From there, you simply have to take that information over to Google and most of the time the answer is solved. I realize sometimes you have to read a LOT of sites and collect tid bits of information from each, then put them together yourself, but that's just what you have to do. In doing so, you will pick up other knowledge along the way and help your understanding of the problem. Research, research, research.

For someone to come in here and ask a question, without spending the time to troubleshoot and research, is abusing what this site is all about. We are not here to do your job for you, and I certainly don't expect anyone to do my job for me. I have asked a question or two on here in the past, sure it's a great place to get help after you have exhausted your own resources.

Sometimes I have to research a problem for hours, even days on a few occasions. That is simply part of being a technician. I have learned far more while researching then I ever will by asking questions. One thing that makes a tech a good tech, is the ability to find an answer to something he/she doesn't know. I don't know everything, no one does. I don't pretend to have the answers if I don't either, but I do know how to research. Sometimes research involves reading, watching, listening, and even EXPERIMENTING. Sure, it's a pain in the arse to load up a VM and try to replicate the issue and monitor what's going on, but you learn so much more in the process.

It should be the goal of every technician to continually educate yourself. It's an essential skill to apply various bits of information in relation to each other. New techs need to stop trying to learn "fixes" and start learning concepts of why, how, and where. Those basic fundamental concepts, along with knowing where to research, are the building blocks of what makes a tech.

Someone asking a question that could have been solved by basic research, or basic troubleshooting based on concepts, appears to me, as a technician who doesn't take real pride in his work.

I have no interest in helping an individual who is an EU just being to cheap to pay for a fix, or a tech who is looking for an easy ride with no pride in his/her work. However, if someone truly wants to learn, I will give them all the time in the world to teach them how to develop and recognize the basic concepts and fundamentals of troubleshooting.

I have too, became frustrated with things here and have stopped posting as much. An end user coming here to ask a question is simply against the rules. A member answering those end user questions is, in my opinion, violating the rules as well. I ignore the questions of end users, but I am highly disappointed in the members here who ignore the rules and answer their questions. We are supposed to be a community, and to me, that means not intentionally breaking the rules that have helped shape this community.

Okay, my rant is over :D

anth
04-29-2011, 03:04 PM
How to we know 100% that it is a EU, maybe that person is just a newbie tech. I believe if the person is a real tech he or she will stay and become a part of the community if it's just a EU they usually will post a question not understand our answers and off they go to another forum.

TimJacobs
04-29-2011, 03:29 PM
How to we know 100% that it is a EU, maybe that person is just a newbie tech. I believe if the person is a real tech he or she will stay and become a part of the community if it's just a EU they usually will post a question not understand our answers and off they go to another forum.
[CONTINUE RANT]
Ok,That is not a problem but, If it is a tech......... then there should be some diagnostics done to the PC right? Not something like:

"I have no video on my laptop, is it my inverter or screen?"

I personally would like to see something like:

"There is No video on this Toshiba Satellite L655-S5156 . Here is what I have done so far.

Hooked up external Monitor - Nothing
I switched out the screen - No Go
I switched out the Inverter - No Go
I switched out the DC Jack - No Go -(Just an example don't trip out)


I'm kinda lost on what I should do now, any help or idea's would be wonderful.


That is all I am saying...... Techs should have some type of Diagnostics to show.

If you haven't done anything then why are you asking for help. We can't be doing your job for you. We can assist you with it but we can't do it.

Do some basic diagnostics....... That's all I am saying.

I have had end users call me up saying: "I have a problem, I have tried this and that and this but still no go, can you come out here and fix it"

Most of my customers can do a better job of diagnosing a Computer Problem then some I have seen ask for assistance.
[RANT PAUSED]

ATTech
04-29-2011, 03:50 PM
More content, more to feed Google, more traffic?
Great, it'll be the next eHow... :rolleyes:

anth
04-29-2011, 04:09 PM
+1 I can hang with that..I do agree.

Newbie techs should have some fundamental troubleshooting skills, I think sometimes we are just to quick to jump down some ones throat because they did not use the search option.

Lefty
05-05-2011, 03:55 AM
This is one of the reasons why I unwittingly post more and more on the business-related sections of the forum. Then again, the problem is not so rampant now as before, is it?

AvidTech
06-11-2011, 02:38 AM
Maybe these guys think that googling is kind of like talking to a recording when calling your cable company, the answer is there but how long will it take to get it. Asking a question on a forum is like talking to a real person, hopefully getting an answer without the wait. Personally I google the heck out of my question just so I don't bother anyone, but thats me.

phaZed
06-11-2011, 03:44 AM
Personally I google the heck out of my question just so I don't bother anyone, but thats me.

And me too... a forum is generally my last resort, a last ditch attempt to find an answer to something that I have failed to find.

I'm an electrician, and went to school for 5 years to become certified by the state. I learned over 300 formulas and equations while in school as well as the entire code-book section by section. Of course, in the "real-world" I never use these formulas, that's mostly the engineer's job. That being said, one of my teachers told me something that has stuck with me, and is true to many things in life. "You don't need to remember everything, you only need to remember where to find it again.. and how to use it."

Painless
06-11-2011, 08:09 AM
Maybe these guys think that googling is kind of like talking to a recording when calling your cable company, the answer is there but how long will it take to get it. Asking a question on a forum is like talking to a real person, hopefully getting an answer without the wait. Personally I google the heck out of my question just so I don't bother anyone, but thats me.

+1

You need to wade through a lot of adverts and reguritated rubbish but eventually you will find a pearl.

Using Google to search this forum is the best place to start and avoid the above. Maybe the syntax should be on a sticky because noobies may not know how to restrict their search.

John

K007
06-11-2011, 01:45 PM
<BEGIN RANT>
OK, well I have no problem helping other techs out, hell even EU's.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KINDNESS !!!! :mad:
May the Lord praise you for your philanthropic tendencies towards the unworthy!

Edit...
in fact, why should I be polite? I will not.
My advice to you personally:
Spend a few bucks and get your first passport,
come here over the Pond and you may learn a thing or two... (if your brain wasn't irreversibly washed).

No apologies please, as they will not be accepted (ever).

Xander
06-11-2011, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by PC Medics http://www.technibble.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.technibble.com/forums/showthread.php?p=211153#post211153)
<BEGIN RANT>
OK, well I have no problem helping other techs out, hell even EU's.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KINDNESS !!!! :mad:
May the Lord praise you for your philanthropic tendencies towards the unworthy!

Edit...
in fact, why should I be polite? I will not.
My advice to you personally:
Spend a few bucks and get your first passport,
come here over the Pond and you may learn a thing or two... (if your brain wasn't irreversibly washed).

No apologies please, as they will not be accepted (ever).You do know that EU means "End Users", not those in the "European Union", right?


The crow... how does it taste? :o

buzzcut
06-11-2011, 03:29 PM
I will be honest. Iíve joined Technibble to learn; how to start, and grow my business.
Most of my posts would have been like info for; insurance, onsite or shop, what tools will I need, SEO, start up costs, etc. Iíve never needed to post these because it was all in front of me through a little searching. I gathered the info, analyzed it and took a little from everyone to make it work for my own business.
As for technical questions (I personally like finding the solution myself it is more gratifying) most answers can be found in the forum, search engines or manufacturers KB.
I read all posts as some are helpful and I take notes from them.
I do however agree that many posts are repetitive and some make me think like dude this is your own business why ask. (IMO)
I would gladly pay for membership here, maybe that would weed out the EU. ( I mean end users)

vdub12
06-13-2011, 08:08 AM
Most of my posts are not technical in nature.

This is a forum for professional technicians so most of us should know our stuff. I personally use this form mostly for growing my buisness, not fixing computers. I obviously already know how to do that. I spent a while getting pissed that EU's where coming here to try and get free technical help. Its kind of rude. We do this as a buisness. Its like calling a plummer and asking them how to do something because you can't afford there service. This is how I feed my family, don't ask me how to fix your computer, pay me to do it. However, now I just ignore it. I purposely don't reply because I am not going to hold an EU's hand and teach them how to do my job. If they want to learn then thats fine but ask someone else. Its like a guy walking up and kicking your car and then asking for a ride. Its rude.

When I do help its because i know the person I am helping is also a professional and when I ask for help I go though my own process before I ask. We can't all be super techs all the time and sometimes need help. However, I have gotten sick of the "change the BIOS battery posts". Its a waste of our time.

AJ.
06-13-2011, 05:25 PM
You do know that EU means "End Users", not those in the "European Union", right?


The crow... how does it taste? :o

Time for a Twix!

oooppss!

TimJacobs
06-14-2011, 06:33 AM
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KINDNESS !!!! :mad:
May the Lord praise you for your philanthropic tendencies towards the unworthy!

Edit...
in fact, why should I be polite? I will not.
My advice to you personally:
Spend a few bucks and get your first passport,
come here over the Pond and you may learn a thing or two... (if your brain wasn't irreversibly washed).

No apologies please, as they will not be accepted (ever).


I have no problem with y'all on the other side of the pond and I will go over there some time...... hopefully within about 5 years or so when the kids are big enough to enjoy it also.... I would never disrepect anyone from the other side of the pond....... It's the End Users that I was talking about.

Martyn
06-14-2011, 07:39 AM
I have no problem with y'all on the other side of the pond and I will go over there some time...... hopefully within about 5 years or so when the kids are big enough to enjoy it also.... I would never disrepect anyone from the other side of the pond....... It's the End Users that I was talking about.

I think he has just picked it up wrong, overreacted and made a way over the top remark back.

NeutronTech
06-14-2011, 04:10 PM
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KINDNESS !!!! :mad:
May the Lord praise you for your philanthropic tendencies towards the unworthy!

Edit...
in fact, why should I be polite? I will not.
My advice to you personally:
Spend a few bucks and get your first passport,
come here over the Pond and you may learn a thing or two... (if your brain wasn't irreversibly washed).

No apologies please, as they will not be accepted (ever).

Wow! Yeah, I think you should be the one apologizing, good sir. Lol, bad day huh? I get days like that too ;)