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IAMPC
11-28-2010, 01:15 AM
We already know the sales of desktops are down but for those of you who haven't seen this article about laptop sales, it is an interesting read...

iPad cannibalizes laptop market (http://venturebeat.com/2010/09/17/the-ipad-effect-on-laptops-negative-sales-growth-best-buy-ceo-claims-notebook-sales-halved/)

Appletax
11-28-2010, 01:31 AM
We already know the sales of desktops are down but for those of you who haven't seen this article about laptop sales, it is an interesting read...

iPad cannibalizes laptop market (http://venturebeat.com/2010/09/17/the-ipad-effect-on-laptops-negative-sales-growth-best-buy-ceo-claims-notebook-sales-halved/)

The weakest part about the iPad that I bet a lot of people see as
being a deal breaker is that it has no USB port.

It's not a true tablet PC with a full operating system and ports to
connect all the usual peripherals you'd connect to a regular
computer.

And, it has 256 MB of RAM, which is ridiculous for 2010.

I'd rather have the HP Slate 500

Better yet, I'd rather have an HP Mini netbook or a nice full-sized Sony laptop

Paul Rodgers
11-28-2010, 01:48 AM
I am actually trying to convince my full time employer to purchase an iPad for one of the salesmen. I think it would be great for people who are constantly getting into trouble with Windows based systems.

datadatau
11-28-2010, 01:56 AM
Apple tax,

I assume from your comments that you are not an iPad user. The iPad system is actually very robust, that is very adequate for the purpose it serves.

I am not going to say that I necessarily agree with the article in the original post, I believe for many users, the iPad has a valid place depending on the functionality that they need, while for others it will not fit the bill. I use it as a tool, but by no means a laptop replacement.

PS. This response was written on an iPad:)

Appletax
11-28-2010, 01:59 AM
Apple tax,

I assume from your comments that you are not an iPad user. The iPad system is actually very robust, that is very adequate for the purpose it serves.

I am not going to say that I necessarily agree with the article in the original post, I believe for many users, the iPad has a valid place depending on the functionality that they need, while for others it will not fit the bill. I use it as a tool, but by no means a laptop replacement.

PS. This response was written on an iPad:)

That's a good point :)

I don't care for the 1st generation of iPads, but I'd probably be inclined
to like the next because it will probably have dual video cameras and more
RAM and other goodies :o



Do you use your iPad for on-site service? I would rather have a netbook for that purpose
because it'd be easier to use the physical keyboard and I'd be able to sneaker net files
between computers if I had to.

datadatau
11-28-2010, 02:12 AM
I do take it onsite, but also have a full size laptop handy.
I use the iPad for reference to documentation, generate receipts, accept credit card payments, and web browsing if needed.

Like stated earlier, I use it as a tool.

Appleby
11-28-2010, 05:39 AM
As I've stated in other posts here, the iPad IS having a negative effect on laptop usage and my business. The number of my customers who have essentially given up their laptops for the iPads is getting larger every month. Some of these customers have gone from 4 home pcs to 1, plus 2 iPads. Another long time customer told me a couple weeks ago that the new laptop I helped him purchase and setup for his wife 6 months ago has been given to their adult daughter. His wife now has no need for laptop because she can "do everything on her new iPad that she ever did on her laptop."

I can think of a 100 common tasks that the iPad fails miserably at and most of these are tasks that I would think any "average Joe" home user would want to do. But I'm wrong....the "average Joe" does so much less with their pc than I give them credit for. I'm finding more and more that pcs are nothing more than internet machines for most of my customers. Even iPhones are replacing laptops for many of my customers. As an iPhone user myself I find this hard to imagine. However, my wife is the perfect example. As I type this she is using her iPhone to surf the web and check FB, which she would have been using her laptop for a year ago.

Paul Rodgers
11-28-2010, 05:55 AM
Become an Apple reseller. That way you can capitalize on the switch. I know a tech that hasn't touched his laptop since he purchased his iPad. I'm not a fan of Apple products, but the iPad interests me. These people still need one computer to use itunes though. That's one computer hooked up to the internet with a good chance of having p2p software installed.

vdub12
11-28-2010, 09:07 AM
Apples problem is there hardware is just way to expensive. I was looking for an ipod touch for my daughter for Christmas and it costs more then the iphone 4. Apple has got to lower there prices before they are going to be a thret to any market. As far as I am concerned Apple products are for yuppies with to much money.

K007
11-28-2010, 09:35 AM
That comes to show what Regular Joe really needs.
Steve Jobs did his homework and found out that vast majority
are paying buckets of money for laptops which come with things they'll never use.

JAG Computers
11-28-2010, 11:30 AM
I find that iPads are overrated in that I see so many statistics thrown around about how they are killing laptop sales, etc. What I have been seeing is that people are using for the same functions that a laptop did while being less expensive. They never needed a laptop to begin with and they just made a switch that was good for them.

Many other people have and do need a laptop for additional functionality that an iPad cannot give and so this ensures that laptops will remain, just not for the people who never needed one.

joydivision
11-28-2010, 03:13 PM
Thankfully most my customers are professionals and use their PCs for specialist applications. I do think it is partly a fab and people will soon miss the flexibility than windows offers.

I have often thought of maketing Ubuntu devices for those that don't want windows.

vdub12
11-28-2010, 05:48 PM
That comes to show what Regular Joe really needs.
Steve Jobs did his homework and found out that vast majority
are paying buckets of money for laptops which come with things they'll never use.

So he charges buckets of money for a device with limited functionality. There are many cases when a notebook or netbook needed or not is cheaper.

Martyn
11-28-2010, 06:17 PM
That comes to show what Regular Joe really needs.
Steve Jobs did his homework and found out that vast majority
are paying buckets of money for laptops which come with things they'll never use.

It hits the nail on the head. Most people just want surfing, email and social networking which an Ipad(and netbooks) cover.

anonymous Mac Tech
11-28-2010, 06:36 PM
Become an Apple reseller. That way you can capitalize on the switch. I know a tech that hasn't touched his laptop since he purchased his iPad. I'm not a fan of Apple products, but the iPad interests me.

Being an Apple reseller doesn't in any way gaurantee you will be able to sell anything. We've been an authorized Macintosh seller and servicer forever. We've never been authorized to sell or service iphones or ipods. But to our surprise we are now an authorized ipad reseller, when we were assuming we would be denied.

K007
11-28-2010, 08:08 PM
So he charges buckets of money for a device with limited functionality. There are many cases when a notebook or netbook needed or not is cheaper.

Yeah, but it looks the "buckets" lol...

ell
11-29-2010, 04:05 AM
It hits the nail on the head. Most people just want surfing, email and social networking which an Ipad(and netbooks) cover.

Not completely I'm afraid, A senior friend of mine just got one as a gift to replace her xp laptop, she does primarily facebook, much to her disappointment the is no chat function in the facebook, not unless you install a separate full-page plugin, then she found there is no flash either.???? I was not impressed, I found it rather slow and didn't like how the pop-up key board filled half the screen, I'd rather have the new Dell inspiron duo, now that looks cool.

Robert
11-29-2010, 05:05 AM
I find that most of my customers who are tossing up between a laptop or an ipad [or similar tablet device], are customers who would only be interested in a rock-bottom laptop, which would have a razor-thin profit margin anyway.

We make more money attaching a Telstra mobile broadband plan to the ipad, than we would selling the ipad itself...

iPad's remind me of the original nix-based netbooks - customers thought they were cute and cheap, bought them, then realised they can't actually do anything with them :)

Wheelie
12-01-2010, 12:23 AM
Gartner cuts PC sales forecast, cites growth of the iPad (http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/11/gartner-cuts-pc-sales-forecast-citing.html)

Tablet computers like the iPad are starting to take a bite out of the worldwide market for personal computers, according to a new report released this week by Gartner. The research firm cut its outlook for PC sales for 2010 and 2011, pointing specifically to the growth of the iPad.

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Appleby
12-01-2010, 03:26 AM
That comes to show what Regular Joe really needs.
Steve Jobs did his homework and found out that vast majority
are paying buckets of money for laptops which come with things they'll never use.

Agree. I'm not an Apple fan by any means...own an iPhone and iPod and nothing else Apple. I just think SO many people are using their laptops/desktops for so little and if they get a smart phone, they start realizing they are using their pcs less and less and they figure out that something like an iPad will suit most of their needs. I'm not suggesting that pcs are going away or that most people will never own one again, but as I've said before, I think the days of everyone in the house having their own pc are quickly going away.

Wheelie
12-04-2010, 04:00 PM
Gartner cuts PC sales forecast, cites growth of the iPad (http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/11/gartner-cuts-pc-sales-forecast-citing.html)

Tablet computers like the iPad are starting to take a bite out of the worldwide market for personal computers, according to a new report released this week by Gartner. The research firm cut its outlook for PC sales for 2010 and 2011, pointing specifically to the growth of the iPad.


And here comes Google Chrome OS in a netbook. Its debut is December 7th.

"Google intends the platform to run on netbooks and other machines with keyboards, booting up in seconds as an alternative to today's Microsoft Windows, Apple Safari and Linux machines."

"... Chrome OS is still very much in a beta stage unfit for mass consumption."

This OS will likely have a major impact in reducing the installed Microsoft Windows base in the 3 to 5 year horizon.


http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Google-Chrome-OS-Netbook-Set-for-Dec-7-Unveiling-251346/


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phaZed
12-05-2010, 08:52 PM
You guys are blind to what is really happening. Its the economy guys. It is estimated that 30-50 Million laptops are sold every year in the US alone. Apple has sold (Biggest estimate) 4-6 million IPads WORLDWIDE.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/10/05/how-many-ipads-has-apple-really-sold/


Remember, the link below stated that Best Buy CEO said 50% of laptops not sold due to IPad.
http://venturebeat.com/2010/09/17/the-ipad-effect-on-laptops-negative-sales-growth-best-buy-ceo-claims-notebook-sales-halved/


So, lets take some averages:
Normally we see 40 Million Laptops sold in US, and so far, 5 Million IPads sold WORLDWIDE.

If you believe Best Buy, then we must assume that the same notebook vs. IPad metric is the same regardless of the store that is selling.

So, 50% of 40 Million = 20 Million.... IPads sold.. WORLDWIDE = 5 Million.

I have a hard time believing that 20 million people stopped buying laptops because the IPad came out... there is a more than 15 Million sales GAP in the numbers.

It would make more sense if IPad sales were 15-20 million in the US alone, and Laptop sales decreased relatively. But it isn't.

The economy sucks, people are losing their jobs. The computers they have now are what they are going to keep. The wealthy class (small percentage, as shown by sales figs) of people buy IPads.

Also, if Best Buy truly believes that IPads are taking over, then they should be making more money as the IPad is a higher cost. They are not. In fact, they are losing money or cutting back labor/benefit costs as a corporation to break even.

No, I think Best Buy is just pumping-up the IPad as much as they can because overall sales suck.

Sincerely,
Aaron Heidlebaugh

Appleby
12-06-2010, 03:50 AM
Those are great numbers and very good insight. The problem is, and maybe it's just me, but as I've stated, I'm seeing more and more customers giving up their laptops and pcs for iPads. And as I've stated, iPhones (and other smart phones) are being used instead of buying/repairing computers. I see it more and more daily, starting with my wife, TONS of our 20-30-something friends and my customers.

The iPad isn't the root of the problem, mainly because of cost, but the smart phone IS the root of the problem. Yes I know, we all say no one can give up a pc for a smartphone or iPad, but I can name names and lots of them.

Wheelie
12-06-2010, 01:00 PM
You guys are blind to what is really happening. Its the economy guys. It is estimated that 30-50 Million laptops are sold every year in the US alone. Apple has sold (Biggest estimate) 4-6 million IPads WORLDWIDE.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/10/05/how-many-ipads-has-apple-really-sold/
From your e-Tech article:
"So how many iPads has Apple sold so far? The consensus is roughly 8.25 million units."
But that's only for 2 quarters (was not released until April 2010). Your same article estimates 4 million sold in Q3 alone. They also are estimating 4 to 6 million for the 4th quarter 2010. So you can see that the rate of sales (growth) of iPads are rapidly accelerating and the 1st year (12 month) sales should easily top 17 million iPads sold.

Remember, the link below stated that Best Buy CEO said 50% of laptops not sold due to IPad.
http://venturebeat.com/2010/09/17/the-ipad-effect-on-laptops-negative-sales-growth-best-buy-ceo-claims-notebook-sales-halved/

Chart from the Venture Beat article:
http://cdn.venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/morgan-stanley-ipad.png


So, lets take some averages:
Normally we see 40 Million Laptops sold in US, and so far, 5 Million IPads sold WORLDWIDE.
So your 5 million figure should be about 17 to 20 million which is about a 50% reduction in laptop market. I don't think you should simply stick you head in the sand and ignore the trend that is happening. The numbers are very compelling that the tablet will indeed cannibalize the laptop market. I would believe all the industry leaders and analysts (in your articles) before I'd jump on your calculations. After all, they do this for a living.

Anyway - there are many factors you have to consider as well that contribute to laptop and desktop PC growth decline: the economy, netbook sales, e-book readers, and smartphone sales. And now you have damn near every manufacturer on the planet racing to release an Android tablet! Wait till they hit the stores and then watch laptop numbers. The laptop is doomed. It will become obsolete

And from this article (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/100610-ipad-tablets-cannibalizing-laptop-netbook.html):
"A Morgan Stanley/Alphawise study conducted in May showed that 44 percent of U.S. consumers who planned to buy an iPad were doing so in lieu of a netbook or notebook PC. Forrester Research also found that 14 percent of U.S. online customers plan to buy a tablet computer within the next 12 months, ahead of the 13 percent planning to buy a laptop, 11 percent planning to buy an eBook reader, 8 percent planning to buy a netbook, and 8 percent said to be planning to buy a desktop computer. The iPad is not a fad. At least for now.

"In fact, the iPad is now the fastest-selling electronic device ever, and with Apple's competition all building tablets -- including RIM's PlayBook, Samsung's Galaxy Tab, Toshiba's Libretto, Dell's Streak, among others -- the tablet market is set to inundate consumers with more choices, especially Android options. Android just became the most prominent smartphone OS, and more and more Android-powered tablets are being released or announced. While there is no such thing as an iPad killer -- just as an iPhone-killer does not exist -- Android might keep Apple up at night."


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Wheelie
12-06-2010, 01:05 PM
You guys are blind to what is really happening ...
... and, with all due respect, it might be you that's blind ...


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