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manderso
11-20-2009, 01:24 PM
What do you use to create/update your website. I'm on a Mac, and have been using Rapidweaver as a low-cost alternative to Dreamweaver. As I explain on the computer repair blog (http://bit.ly/2aerpo), I'm looking for a new program, and I guess I'm looking to start editing code by hand. Does anyone here do that, and are they happy with the results?

Thanks.

Mushin
11-20-2009, 01:34 PM
What do you use to create/update your website. I'm on a Mac, and have been using Rapidweaver as a low-cost alternative to Dreamweaver. As I explain on the computer repair blog (http://bit.ly/2aerpo), I'm looking for a new program, and I guess I'm looking to start editing code by hand. Does anyone here do that, and are they happy with the results?

Thanks.

I start with a content managment system such a Joomla and a good template.

I then use a combination of the Joomla built in HTML editor for manual code changes and Microsoft Expression Web becuase I got a free copy. For graphic work I use photoshop for the most part. I am by no means a grapic designer or web developer but with a good template and CMS you can go a long way with limted tools. Take a look at my site.

www.sitetechservice.com

manderso
11-20-2009, 01:47 PM
I start with a content managment system such a Joomla and a good template.

I then use a combination of the Joomla built in HTML editor for manual code changes and Microsoft Expression Web becuase I got a free copy. For graphic work I use photoshop for the most part. I am by no means a grapic designer or web developer but with a good template and CMS you can go a long way with limted tools. Take a look at my site.

www.sitetechservice.com

That's pretty impressive. You say Joomla has a built in html editor? What do you need Expression studio for then?

Thanks and keep 'em coming!

stevenamills
11-20-2009, 01:53 PM
I tend to use Wordpress. The support available is unbelieveable.

Take your time to find a good theme and I believe you can do most anything you want.

Just my approach.

Mushin
11-20-2009, 02:18 PM
That's pretty impressive. You say Joomla has a built in html editor? What do you need Expression studio for then?

Thanks and keep 'em coming!

Since Expression web is local to my machine it runs faster and you can also see the code and the design at the same time. I am using it to brak down a non Joomla Site design into modules of code that I plug into Joomla articles and modules.

I started with just pluggin in an entire page of code but that defeats the power of a CMS so I broke those pieces of code down to individual snipptes and plugged them into Joomla articles so now I have the power of CMS.

I can update on the fly so to speak and can move content from one section to another at the push of a button.

Mr I
11-20-2009, 02:23 PM
I use dreamweaver, fireworks, and flash. When I don't have my laptop with me and need to make any change, I use notepad++ and filezilla to upload the changes

ZenMike
11-20-2009, 02:43 PM
Dreamweaver's built-in FTP client is very nice and gives it a big advantage over many alternatives in my mind. Also their search and replace features are very helpful and flexible. Their code-completion is also fairly usefull.

I find that I really like the NetBeans PHP IDE as well. It does not have a WYSIYG editor. It's strictly for coding. I prefer the actual editor over Dreamweaver, but I frequently wish the NetBeans FTP client were stronger and find myself relying on FileZilla or even the Dreamweaver FTP client even when using the Netbeans IDE for coding.

For CMS, Joomla and WordPress both allow you to edit the HTML but its just in a text area, convenient, but nothing fancy.

ProTech Support
11-20-2009, 02:55 PM
I start with a content managment system such a Joomla and a good template.

I then use a combination of the Joomla built in HTML editor for manual code changes and Microsoft Expression Web becuase I got a free copy. For graphic work I use photoshop for the most part. I am by no means a grapic designer or web developer but with a good template and CMS you can go a long way with limted tools. Take a look at my site.

www.sitetechservice.com

*Special Treat For Everyone Who Loves Joomla Below*

I do somewhat of the same thing, but I do not always use a pre-designed template. Some customers have a very specific idea of what they want the website to look like, and when those cases come you can't always rely on pre-designed templates.

For making my own templates for Joomla, I use a program called Artisteer 2. It's not free, but it is worth every penny. If you use Joomla a lot you should seriously look into it. For photo editing & the like I use Photoshop.

I also use other advanced tools like Microsoft's Notepad, I really like the programs functionality and its limitless uses.

tminer
11-20-2009, 04:39 PM
To me hand coding is pointless, except for that you really get to learn what the code is doing other than that its a waste of time.

I use dreamweaver and fireworks and have for many many years.

ComputerClinic
11-20-2009, 06:03 PM
I use the Drupal CMS. I start with the zen theme (very bare) and create a custom theme from that framework. Only need to know CSS and HTML, both of which are pretty easy to learn. Sometimes PHP is needed but in those cases google can help you out just fine. There are benefits of knowing how to code. When something goes wrong, you won't be in the dark about how to fix it. Hand coding usually produces cleaner code. Learning how to code and use a CMS is free.

P.S. It took me only 3 months of learning to go from knowing absolutely nothing about web development and graphics design to learn enough to create my website with this method.

JosephLeo
11-20-2009, 06:19 PM
For the designing process I first use Adobe Fireworks to make a mockup. Then I open up Photoshop to finish the design for stuff that Fireworks can't do like advanced graphics and filters.

For the development stage I use Dreamweaver as an HTML, CSS, JavaScript and PHP editor and I use either Drupal, or Joomla for my websites as a CMS depending on what type of website it is.

Finally, for production I use the internal CMS.


As for the development stage- I am looking into using Microsoft Expression Web

TechForce
11-20-2009, 11:54 PM
i like many others here use joomla to power the site as it's cms.
i design on paper, then in illustrator/photoshop,
build the template in dreamweaver, mostly hand coded as dreamweaver's a bitch for 'drawing' divs, but you can preview the design beforehand, plug in the joomla code and build the template to install to joomla, then style it up with css..


the most invaluable tool i have however is the 'web developer toolbar' for firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60

lets you edit css 'on the fly' and see the changes to the page. awesome little add-on!

Reviver
11-21-2009, 04:26 AM
I use Wordpress as a CMS and code the theme's HTML, CSS and PHP in TextWrangler (which is for OS X).

diggauk
11-21-2009, 12:26 PM
For me, I use Aptana Studio. It's free and very comprehensive, although it is purely a code based design program, but supports all common languages.

I use it because I got one of them web design for dummies books a few years ago, and thats what it was based upon. It is very good at helping you write 'compliant' code that works in most browsers, and after a while you get to understand many of the automation features.

It's built in FTP site management is also very good, and can handle many sites at once.

ZenMike
11-21-2009, 03:38 PM
To me hand coding is pointless, except for that you really get to learn what the code is doing other than that its a waste of time.

I use dreamweaver and fireworks and have for many many years.

It just depends on whether you're a designer or a programmer. My post was geared more toward web programming. The rest of this thread seems more about web design and content management, which is awesome, but they are different things with different purposes/goals.

Reviver
11-21-2009, 08:27 PM
To me hand coding is pointless, except for that you really get to learn what the code is doing other than that its a waste of time.

I use dreamweaver and fireworks and have for many many years.

I code everything by hand in a basic text editor.

I used to be like you and used Dreamweaver as a crutch for years. Now I just use a text editor and my web browser.

Not only does coding by hand force you to learn the language and how to apply it efficiently, it's also quicker as you don't have to go back and spend hours fixing the non-compliant garbage code that Dreamweaver creates.

Do any of the websites you've made in Dreamweaver validate (http://validator.w3.org/) as XHTML 1.0 transitional? Unless they are very simple or you spent time fixing them they probably won't validate.

This impacts SEO to some degree, as well as cross browser compatibility.

It's also worth mentioning that once you learn how to code properly the website creation process becomes very joyful... your vision is more easily unleashed.

MobileTechie
11-21-2009, 09:45 PM
I REALLY need to learn how to code html and css. I've been trying to do stuff just using tools and it does not cut it.

I don't know why the developers cannot make a WYSIWYG editor that really works and makes placing elements etc simple but they apparently cannot so I spend way too long messing around trying to get things arranged and I'm never 100% happy. Thing is, with my MCSE study, 2 jobs, 2 kids etc...I just don't get the time.

I started to rebuild my old site which was built using the RVSitebuilder (www.mobile-techie.com). I think it's very dated already and amateur looking. So I just got going with Joomla and bought Artisteer to make a template. That was going OK and looked great but now I've tried doing what I want, it's not so good. Here is my attempt so far with Joomla www.test2.mobiletechy.co.uk. Already it's going off the rails!

I've been using Phot Filtre and LogoMaker for artwork as I cannot get my head or wallet around Photoshop.

tminer
11-21-2009, 10:30 PM
Not only does coding by hand force you to learn the language and how to apply it efficiently, it's also quicker as you don't have to go back and spend hours fixing the non-compliant garbage code that Dreamweaver creates.

Note in my post is said "except for that you really get to learn what the code is doing other than that its a waste of time"

I've done web sites full time for many years, so you think what you want. I have over 40 sites under my belt and i do everything myself from the domain registration all the way through the seo. This includes running the server for these site. Im pretty sure (lol) that i know what im talking about

Do any of the websites you've made in Dreamweaver validate (http://validator.w3.org/) as XHTML 1.0 transitional? Unless they are very simple or you spent time fixing them they probably won't validate.

Um well you can see for yourself on my site, which is in my sig, xhtml and css validates.

MobileTechie
11-22-2009, 08:39 AM
It just depends on whether you're a designer or a programmer. My post was geared more toward web programming. The rest of this thread seems more about web design and content management, which is awesome, but they are different things with different purposes/goals.

I'm guessing from your site that you use Joomla

ZenMike
11-22-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm guessing from your site that you use Joomla

I'm using Joomla for my main business site. I also have several sites running on WordPress and Drupal as well as completely custom and Cake-based frameworks. I've been developing Joomla components and plugins lately so I have my business site running on Joomla for credibility and to demo to clients. I think for CMS Joomla is really nice, though each has it's strenghts and weaknesses.

P.S. I never use the built in editors for more than the simplest changes to the templates or CSS. Otherwise I do all coding locally, as previously mentioned, and FTP the files up to the server.

ICEinLAVA
12-14-2009, 09:38 AM
To me hand coding is pointless, except for that you really get to learn what the code is doing other than that its a waste of time.

I use dreamweaver and fireworks and have for many many years.

I haven't used dreamweaver before, but i have hand coded webpages that look the same but have a fraction of the code. the benefit of this would allow pages to load faster. but this would really only benefit clients on a dial up connection.

tminer
12-14-2009, 04:13 PM
I haven't used dreamweaver before, but i have hand coded webpages that look the same but have a fraction of the code. the benefit of this would allow pages to load faster. but this would really only benefit clients on a dial up connection.
If you havent used it then how would you know how much extra code is added? The fact of the matter is that there may be a TINY bit more code that the server processes for dynamic sites, but what is spit ouit to the end user (to download) is no more than if you hand coded it. So you saying hand coding is only a fraction of the code by dreamweaver is totally inaccurate. View the source code on my website and you will see there is not alot of extra (bloat). Some of my sites have been up for over 8 years, back when alot of the sites customers where still on dial-up, we retained customers because our site was fast for them.

JosephLeo
12-14-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't remember Dreamweaver adding any code whatsoever. All it does for me is close my tags while typing which is very helpful and saves precious time when making a website.

tminer
12-14-2009, 04:34 PM
Yep, your correct, it does save alot of time by closing tags, it also helps eliminate errors, that would be harder to figure out hand coding.

It does add some extra when calling recordsets and stuff for dynamic pages, but the ease outweighs the small amount of fluff thats added.

Its funny because some of the earlier posts had reference to adding different code for ie6, ie7, mozilla, etc, this isnt needed if you use dreamweaver cause its almost all compatible.

TriadPCSolutions
12-14-2009, 08:07 PM
well since I'm doing the insanity of trying to start a comp business with nearly no money to stand on, I've been messing around with amaya, which is free, open source and developed by w3c. Haven't done anything too in depth with it as I am very early on in the development stages but so far it has impressed me.

Anyone have any experience using this for more in depth stuff? Curious if I'll be able to pull off a good site with just this or if I'm going to have to break down and buy something soon.

Reset
12-14-2009, 09:04 PM
Its funny because some of the earlier posts had reference to adding different code for ie6, ie7, mozilla, etc, this isnt needed if you use dreamweaver cause its almost all compatible.

Are you kidding me ??? Lets say your using css 2 as framework for you web site you have to use custom code for each web browser ie7 ie8 and even FireFox as its doesn't always work in Dreamweaver. I know because i do it everyday for clients.


Just one question for you guys what are you going to do when they make html 5 and css3 the standard which you can already use buts it not the current standard. Dreamweaver CS4 isn’t html 5 or css3 compliant.

JosephLeo
12-14-2009, 09:23 PM
Are you kidding me ??? Lets say your using css 2 as framework for you web site you have to use custom code for each web browser ie7 ie8 and even FireFox as its doesn't always work in Dreamweaver. I know because i do it everyday for clients.


Just one question for you guys what are you going to do when they make html 5 and css3 the standard which you can already use buts it not the current standard. Dreamweaver CS4 isnít html 5 or css3 compliant.

I said earlier that I have two final stylesheets for my pages. a master style.css, and then an ie.css in a conditional comment. If by any odd reason I need to target a specific version of IE I'd also make an IE8, IE7, IE6, IE5_5, IEelse.css file each with their own hack to hide from IE Mac as well.

Also- I do use some CSS3 properties already but I make sure that I use only the ones that degrade gracefully like rounded corners. HTML5 is currently unsupported entirely by the IE lineup and Firefox 2. And to get it working properly to it's full extent in any browser you'll have to use html5shiv as well as custom javascript object replacement techniques for the video, audio and canvas tag. Not to mention the CSS3 and HTML5 spec isn't even completed so there is no point to use something that's half finished because for all we know <nav> might be changed to <navigation> or removed entirely by the time it's done. No point in HTML5 in a production level website yet.

Also, when the time comes to use (x)HTML5/HTML5/CSS3 I will upgrade myself to CS6....HTML5 and CSS3 probably wont be ready even during the entire course of CS5's lifespan. Give it 4 years and you'll see me using HTML5. If I'm making money making websites then a $600 upgrade isn't exactly a lot of money.

tminer
12-15-2009, 05:28 AM
All i can tell you is that i dont have to use any html 5 or css3, i can do anything I need to do with the current mainstream versions. Basically like Leo was saying, when the standards become more popular and supported, I will buy dreamweaver cs5 (which im sure will support these new standards) and go from there. Its evolution!

ICEinLAVA
12-15-2009, 09:20 AM
If you havent used it then how would you know how much extra code is added? The fact of the matter is that there may be a TINY bit more code that the server processes for dynamic sites, but what is spit ouit to the end user (to download) is no more than if you hand coded it. So you saying hand coding is only a fraction of the code by dreamweaver is totally inaccurate. View the source code on my website and you will see there is not alot of extra (bloat). Some of my sites have been up for over 8 years, back when alot of the sites customers where still on dial-up, we retained customers because our site was fast for them.

I didn't know that my warning stating i don't know dreamweaver would cause you to crap barb wire... I group Dreamweaver together with GoLive, Frontpage and all the other WYSIWYG editors. i have worked with other WYSIWYG editors, just not Dreamweaver and my experience with the other editors has been bloated code and non uniformal viewing cross browser. Granted i haven't tried using a WYSiWYG editor in over ten years, i should hope they have the issues worked out. I remember people hacking websites with the required frontpage extensions some companies were using.

but since you requested your site reviewed.

78 non-break spaces all together instead of using a table tag with columns.

13 comment tags, i really only found 2 of them as possible justifiable.

Site map is unformated.

Nacbro link is dead. site page is a 404 error

plus if your site has been up for 8 years with 9 of the pages showing the same "Info coming soon!". just take the page down or hide that section. Is the info coming soon now or is it coming soon 8 years ago.

ZenMike
12-15-2009, 05:27 PM
I think many of us are looking at this from different perspectives without acknowledging that all these tools are for (can be used for) different purposes. Also those who come to web development from a design background will have very different needs and objectives than those coming from a programming background.

Dreamweaver does have some similarities to GoLive and FrontPage, but it also has a fairly capable code editor with auto-complete, syntax checking, and code coloring. I also think it's much better as a WYSIWYG editor if that's what you're into.

There's also been some overlap in this thread to content management systems (CMS) like Joomla, which is a whole seperate category of tools.

So here's my breakdown:

CMS Systems
Joomla - very nice, extenable (CMS). Requires some training for the end-user and basic knowledge of PHP for template setup. Creating modules and plugins requires more extensive knowledge of PHP.
Drupal - A very robust CMS, but a little more complex to develop for than Joomla.
WordPress - A purpose-specific (blogging). Very easy to use and extend. Lots of support. Can be used for non-blog sites, but blogging is where it really shines.

WYSIWYG Editors
DreamWeaver - IMO there's not much else in this category worth looking at, but I've never tried really hard.

Code Editors
NotePad, TextPad, NotePad++ - pure text editors. No native FTP support, though some can be extended. Only for purists.
NetBeans PHP IDE - nice code helpers (auto-complete, coloring, syntax checking...). Nice UI. Fairly easy to use and FREE!
DreamWeaver - Excellent code helpers and the best native FTP client of any IDE I've ever used.
Visual Studio - Proprietary and expensive, but if you're doing .NET developement it's part of the deal. There is an Express edition for 2008.

There are many others, free and paid, and I am sure many will have very strong opinions, but FWIW this is my list.

BryanLee
12-15-2009, 05:59 PM
I use Dreamweaver and Photoshop. That's about it.

wimwauters
12-15-2009, 11:37 PM
I REALLY need to learn how to code html and css. I've been trying to do stuff just using tools and it does not cut it.

I don't know why the developers cannot make a WYSIWYG editor that really works and makes placing elements etc simple but they apparently cannot so I spend way too long messing around trying to get things arranged and I'm never 100% happy. Thing is, with my MCSE study, 2 jobs, 2 kids etc...I just don't get the time.

How about picking up a free website template somewhere and then working on it with Kompozer (used to be called nVu) ?

Kompozer also has a built-in FTP client and text editor.

Although nothing beats Filezilla for uploading websites.

That's how I did my unisoftdesign.co.uk website

MobileTechie
12-16-2009, 10:38 AM
Well I built my current website with no coding using Joomla and it's doing it's job OK. It's just that I think when you're trying to get exactly what you want some coding seems to be necessary.